June 1, 2021

Podcast Episode #4: Celebrity Diet Endorsements and Body Neutrality

body neutrality

As women, no matter what stage of life we are in, and no matter what shape or size we are, our bodies are constantly being scrutinized by society. And through the media, companies are profiting from making us feel insecure. Celebrity diet endorsements are a very dangerous phenomenon that is tricking women and girls into believing that by drinking thin tea or wearing a corset they will look like Kim Kardashian, for example. In today’s episode, Kelly and Megan explain why this is not only far from the truth, but how the things that are being endorsed are actually often harmful to our bodies. That being said, there is also a major body positivity/body neutrality movement which is something that the hosts are passionate advocates for. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to live in a world where all bodies are celebrated, nobody (except your doctor) has a right to comment on your weight, and your authentic self is the most beautiful thing you can be?


Read The Articles:

It’s Time We Embrace Body Positivity, Because All Bodies Are Beautiful

Celebrities Love To Endorse Diets On Instagram. Can This Lead To Disordered Eating?

Key Points From This Episode:

  • The pervasiveness of the topics that are going to be covered in today’s episode.

  • Generational differences in views on weight and women’s bodies.

  • Dishonesty that plagues the celebrity diet endorsement space.

  • Harm that is being caused by celebrity diet endorsements.

  • Examples of edibles being promoted by celebrities which can contribute to disordered eating.

  • I Weigh; the online community founded by Jameela Jamil and why Kelly is such a big fan.

  • Corsets are endorsed by the Kardashian’s but there are very serious reasons not to use them.

  • Dangers of the way that the media praises women who get back to their pre-pregnancy body very soon after birth.

  • Why those of us who aren’t celebrities should not be comparing out postpartum journeys to those who are.

  • Double standards that are applied to men and women’s bodies.

  • Kelly and Megan share personal stories about times when people have commented on their weight inappropriately.

  • Examples of what you should and shouldn’t say when you notice a change in someone’s weight.

  • The rise in advertisements that showcase different body types, colors, abilities and so on.

  • How Megan and Kelly helped their children maintain a neutral body image.

  • Vote with your dollars for the brands that align with your values.

  • Performative allyship; what it means and why it’s important to do research to figure out if the brands you support are hiding behind this.

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Jameela Jamil body neutrality body neutrality

I Weigh

View Transcript



[00:00:01] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to She’s a Full On Monet, a digital lifestyle magazine for women. Every week, our Editor-In-Chief, Kelly Castillo, along with Megan Block and special guests, participate in a deep-dive discussion about recent articles and topics we have covered. We invite you to become part of our community, where everyone’s welcome.




[00:00:25] KC: So, we’re back. This is the She’s a Full On Monet podcast. We are on episode four now. I feel like we’re kind of, a little bit, getting the hang of what we’re doing. But I don’t want to say that because I don’t want to jinx us. We’ll see how today goes. Maybe we’ll say it next week.


[00:00:42] MB: When I feel like I’m fully prepared, and everything’s good, I feel like we’re getting better. We are getting better. It feels like I don’t have to prepare as much beforehand. I can just go with it. It feels more at home to put these things on and like get ready to talk into the mic. Before I had to like prep myself a little bit.


[00:00:42] KC: Yeah. It feels a little more natural to me too. Before I was – not stage fright, but something similar to that where no matter how prepared I was, I didn’t feel prepared. Yeah, today’s good. We’re both in quiet places with no distractions. It’s going to be good.


So, today’s episode, we are talking about a couple of different articles that we have recently published that kind of go together. One is celebrity diet dndorsements, and how that affects the way that we view our bodies, then how it affects teenage girls and young people who are seeing that. Also, we’re going to talk, because it’s hand in hand, about body positivity and as we go into summer, kind of how all bodies are summer bodies, and maybe more importantly, body neutrality. Because I think body positivity and body neutrality, while they get interchanged a lot, they are different things.


Yeah, that’s what we’re going to talk about today. I think probably every single woman on planet Earth can relate to this subject. And if you are a mom of daughters, as Megan and I both are, I have two daughters who are 19 and 23, and Megan has two daughters who are younger. So, we are right in the thick of how they view their bodies and all the issues that come along with changing bodies as you grow into adulthood and all of that mess.


[00:02:22] MB: The fun that that is, right?


[00:02:25] KC: Yes. The fun that you have to look forward to, right?


[00:02:30] MB: It’s fun. I don’t feel like it’s an age thing. I want to say that, “Oh, my nine-year-old, she’s now starting to really become aware of her body.” I feel like we’re always, no matter what age, we never grow out of that. It starts certainly at a certain age. But we always go through stages, especially when you’re in your 20s, and then when you’re after you’re a mom and your body changes, it’s like we’re always conscious of that, and it doesn’t ever go away.


So, when she’s starting to now talk about it, I’m like, “Oh, the road that you get to be down forever.” I’m hoping we can get to a point where we just love the body that we’re in and we’re not in that comparison game. So, these two topics I’m excited to talk about today.


[00:03:15] KC: Yeah, and I think you’re right. It does kind of impact us at every age. Because when you’re a preteen, and your body starts developing, that’s like an eye opener. It changes the way – and then, grown men start, it’s gross, but it’s true, grown men start paying attention to you in a way that feels icky and that makes us look at our body differently. And then as you age, then you cannot eat Chick-fil-A for every meal and have exactly the same body you did as a teenager. It changes when you have kids. It changes when you hit your mid to late 40s and you are kind of in perimenopause, that changes your body and changes your skin, your hair, everything.


So, yeah, I think this is something that we carry with us through life, unfortunately. And hopefully, maybe by the time our kids or our grandkids get to those ages, they don’t have as many issues coming at them, whether it’s from the media or from other people. I think a lot of it is generational. I see a big difference in like my husband’s generation and how they talk about weight, how they talk about bodies, versus what’s acceptable now, as far as like, maybe not my generation, but definitely my kids’ generation and the way that they see weight and bodies versus the older generation, it’s a huge gap. So, maybe by the time we get to the next two generations –


[00:04:37] MB: We’ll be back on the track again.


[00:04:40] KC: Yeah, you can correct the craziness, for sure. So, I think we can start with the celebrity diet endorsement issue. This to me, is a bigger issue because I do have daughters in that age range who follow on social media, a ton of celebrities. They are, like I said, 19 and 23. So, they’re in that exactly perfect age, for kind of buying into the sneaky marketing and sneaky advertising that social media offers now, where it can look like a celebrity or influencer is kind of letting you in on something secret when really they’re being paid to talk about a product that they may or may not even use.


A lot of these people that do the celebrity diet endorsements, they have a huge team in place behind how they look. Whether or not they’ve had any kind of surgical enhancements, they have nutritionists, they have trainers, they have chefs, they have a team that does their photo shoots, and then that edits those photos. So, what they’re portraying is not necessarily attainable to like a regular person and they’re not shouting out their plastic surgeon or their chef or their trainer. They’re shouting out diet lollipops, or those thin teas or body wraps or something.


I’m trying to make it seem like that’s – “Yes, I look like this because I drink this tea.” What?

[00:06:10] MB: Yeah, there’s a big thing that came out with Kylie Jenner about how she said that she attains her body through exercise. It’s like, “No.” First of all, I saw this TikTok video about a woman speaking about it and she made some really good points. She was saying that if you say that, you’re already setting up young women and people that follow you and want to be like you to say that if you work out and work out hard, and I can look like that. That’s not all you’re doing. You want to be honest and then somebody made a joke about, “Oh, her plastic surgeon changed his profession to personal trainer.” Because it’s like, they don’t want to be completely honest about how they attain that and the things that they are talking about, they are not under any obligation to actually consume those products. If you give them a price point that’s high enough, and if it’s on brand, they’ll endorse it, but they don’t have to take it.


There’s literally like you said, like a team of people, creating this person. And at the end of the video it’s like, “You want to look like Kylie Jenner? Kylie Jenner doesn’t even look like Kylie Jenner.” It’s such a good point to make that it’s like, please don’t tell people that if I just go exercise and go on the elliptical that I can look like you because that’s not what’s happening behind the scenes and it’s unhealthy and it’s scary, and it gets people in your kids age and younger, who know who Kylie Jenner is, to think that that’s all they have to do. That’s not all.


[00:07:37] KC: The problem with that is that when they start an exercise routine, which is great, it’s healthy, everybody should exercise. When they start an exercise routine and they don’t get those results, then they go to more and more extremes. They start to say, “What’s wrong with me that I’m doing what she told me to do, and I don’t look like that?”


[00:07:55] MB: Yeah. It’s false advertising on like the unhealthiest level, because it’s causing girls to have this image issue that they’re thinking, “Well, I’m doing what you’re saying, why is that not working?” That’s probably not what’s actually happening. Yes, she’s probably exercising a little bit, but there’s so much more that goes into it. And that’s just one person, but she’s very influential. Even my nine-year-old knows who Kylie Jenner is and she doesn’t watch any of the Kardashian stuff, but she knows who she is.


[00:08:24] KC: Yeah. The Kardashians in general, have really gotten a lot of flack for this and I think rightly so. Because they have made their whole business around having idealized body types. They really push it, whether it’s a show about revenge bodies, whether it’s photoshoots that really accentuate, and they’ve made a ton of money off of looking a certain way. But when they also advertise diet lollipops, appetite suppressants, thin teas, which all of them, almost all of them have done, I don’t know if Kendall has. I haven’t actually seen that from her. So, I don’t want to kind of generalize but I have seen it in Chloe’s social media, in Kylie’s, in Kim’s.


And when you hold yourself up as a body ideal, and then you equate it to things that can really contribute to disordered eating, that’s not great. Because if teenage girls, young women, anybody actually, it’s not even an age issue, if you are struggling with disordered eating and then you see a celebrity kind of normalize it by talking about drinking just thin teas or doing a body detox with cayenne pepper or some crazy thing, it seems like whatever you’re doing is okay and normal and, “Okay, everybody must be doing this because they’re talking about it too. So, it’s okay that I’m only drinking tea, or I’m taking laxative tea,” or whatever it is that is happening. I mean, that’s really dangerous. So, I really – I love Jameela Jamil, am I saying that right? I should have probably googled that.


[00:09:59] MB: On how to say?


[00:10:00] KC: On how to say, how to pronounce, because I –


[00:10:03] MB: I just –


[00:10:04] KC: Yeah, I’m so sorry.


[00:10:07] MB: I’m the worst. I look at something and exactly how you think it would be said, that’s how I would say it.


[00:10:10] KC:  That’s how I say it, yeah. So, I sincerely apologize if I am mispronouncing her name, because I actually think she’s fantastic. Jameela Jamil, she’s an actress and she has really spoken out against celebrity diet endorsements and the harm that it can cause for young girls. She actually created a whole social media thing called I Weigh, which is just about body positivity, body neutrality, and healthy eating, healthy exercise regimens, whatever is healthy for your body, kind of just doing what your body needs, and not worrying about looking a certain way.


So, she has been one of the most outspoken celebrities coming out against celebrity diet endorsements. I think, it’s one of those things like, we used to be okay with celebrities endorsing cigarettes and it used to be okay to put them into movies and advertise, even advertisements that were very thinly veiled children’s advertisements for cigarettes, right? That used to be like a whole thing in the ‘70s and ‘80s. And then, as we realized how harmful it was, we changed the legislation and the rules about that. I see this probably going the same way.


[00:11:14] MB: I hope so. Because it’s like, you always think behind all these things, is there’s some big, big money, something that’s backing up, keeping this image issue. Because this issue has been around forever. You know what I mean? It’s like, why is it not getting highlighted more? Probably because somebody out there is making a ton of money off of whatever, that they keep it kind of hidden down there. So, I’m hoping so. I mean, you see more curvaceous people in commercials and modeling and stuff like that. There’s less of this, “What should I look like?” But it’s just it’s getting so unrealistic. I keep bringing them up, because they’re a perfect example of it. But the Kardashians are like, yeah –


[00:11:58] KC: Hourglass figure, exaggerated hourglass.


[00:12:02] MB: If I thought – okay, if I want to look like them, I would wear one of those like weight corsets and I would walk around eating a salad that I’d shake up, you know what I mean? And then I would like drink some diet tea and that’s all I would do and like do a workout.


[00:12:15] KC: That’s another thing that they’ve endorsed are these weight training corsets that –

[00:12:22] MB: I remember that. They wear them proudly. Like that’s all she would – Kim Kardashian, especially like all the time. I’m like, “Oh, okay, so if I want like this, because that’s what society is telling me, maybe it’s not even me. But I’ve now been subconsciously told by society.” And this can happen at any age. Women, especially women that have had kids, they go through so many body issues that they no longer feel, you know, they still want to be wanted. We don’t want like the gross men situation, but when you just, when that goes silent, then that also gives you this weird image issue.


So, women also look at that and go, “Okay, so now I just wear this corset that squeezes everything in and pops my organs out into places, I’m going to have to walk around holding my organs in my hands because they can’t fit in there.”


[00:13:10] KC: There’s no space.


[00:13:11] MB: And even if I put them in there, then I’m still not skinny enough. Sorry, I need organs in my body.


[00:13:18] KC: As we all do.


[00:13:19] MB: [Inaudible] want me to be that skinny. I don’t know how they do it. But it’s like, I do remember the corset situation. I remember it being all over their social media feeds and I just remember thinking, “That can’t be healthy.” But I’m not a dieter, so I don’t know for sure. I’ve always been small and thin, but I also have body image issues as well. But I mean, I’ve never considered doing the corset, but I remember thinking that couldn’t be a good thing.


[00:13:46] KC: No. Doctors were coming out at the time and saying that this is really bad for your body. You’re really compressing internal organs and moving things around and you shouldn’t do that. She was talking about how she was wearing them like 20 hours a day or something, taking them off only to shower and that was how she was getting this tiny waist. I mean, I know people did that back in the Victorian times, that was like a normal way of dressing but they also died at like 40 years old. I don’t think it was good.

[00:14:14] MB: Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So, it’s like you hear that – I hear the fact that she wore that 20 hours a day and I go, “Wow, she has to be probably the most self-conscious of them all.” Because even the people that we idolize still have body image issues as well, we all suffer from it.


[00:14:30] KC: And then, if you have that kind of whatever, body dysmorphia or bad body issues, body image issues, and then you start doing these really kind of cringely weird things to get a result that you want, whether it’s wearing some crazy corset or drinking nothing but thin tea or juice cleanses or whatever it is. And then society and the media give you a huge, huge reward by giving you all this attention and telling you how great you look, that just kind of perpetuates the disordered eating situation that is going on and body image issues. Because anytime you get rewarded for doing something that’s unhealthy, that is really dangerous because somebody has to speak up and ask you, “Are you okay? Because it’s not normal to wear that for 20 hours a day.”


[00:15:18] MB: Every decision that you make when you’re someone like that, who people want to idolize and look like. If somebody is bringing your picture into a cosmetic surgery and going, “Make me look like this person,” then you have the obligation now, because of how crazy social media is and how accessible it is, you have the obligation to make sure everything that you do and endorse and say isn’t going to lead someone down a toxic path. Because, as un-responsible as you want to feel for that individual, like they wouldn’t have known about that lifestyle choice had you not said something, and they were already obsessed with you to begin with, “If Kim Kardashian does it, I’m going to do it, even if my doctor tells me it’s insane.”


[00:15:59] KC: Exactly.


[00:15:59] MB: We’ll not listen to common sense. Just because the person that they idolize does these things, or says that they do these things, or endorses these things. It’s dangerous.


[00:16:11] KC: And it’s not, I mean, we are focusing on the Kardashians, but it’s not just them. So many celebrities do this. Cardi B, right after she had her daughter, posted an Instagram post about the thin tea thing that she was doing to get her body back after childbirth. One of the big issues I have as a mom is this society and media celebrating celebrities who bounce back so fast after having a baby. They take photos of them, paparazzi photos of them just weeks, or several months after having a child and pick apart their bodies and whether or not they’ve bounced back and how they look. It’s so bad. It’s so bad, because that is a time of our lives where our body just did something miraculous and it’s healing. That’s normal. And we need to normalize giving – if it took you nine months to get your body to where the baby was full term, it should take you maybe nine months to get back or however long it takes you.


[00:17:08] MB: Our priorities have shifted. And our free time has gone from this to nothing. So, like, I’m sorry I haven’t hit the gym but I’ve been keeping a person who cannot do anything a lot. My life shifted and as it should. You should be able to spend that time being a mother and creating your body even if you’re not breastfeeding. Just making sure that you’re whole and healthy and not worrying if you have a six pack in two weeks. That’s ridiculous, and drinking tea. Like I said, those are the people that have the highest image issues, is that they feel like they have to. I’m sorry, that sucks, that you feel like you have to, and hopefully more celebrities will come out and be proud of the fact that it took them longer because that’s the normal healthy way. Because I think we’re all hoping that that will stop.


Good for you. But also, at the same time, now we’re all feeling like that’s what we have to do. Celebrity or not, we all feel like, “Well, if she did it, then it’s technically possible. So now, I should have to do it too.”


[00:18:06] KC: Exactly. We have Victoria’s Secret runway models who walk the runway just a couple of months after giving birth and I mean, I don’t know, that’s their job so I get it.


[00:18:18] MB: That’s what I’m saying. That’s literally, they get paid millions of dollars to do, bad timing. But they also know that and then they hire a literal team to get them into shape because they have to go do their job. I’m sure there’s fighters out – my husband works at an MMA gym and there was an MMA fight with two women. The woman that won, she had a baby two months before the big, big fight. And she was like ripped. But also, that’s her job. It is not my job from where I’m standing right here to have a six pack. No one’s paying me millions of dollars to go walk a runway or fight anybody. So, I’m going to give myself grace and time, and that’s most people. Don’t compare yourself to whoever’s walking the runway because you’re not walking the runway. They are. That’s their job.


[00:19:10] KC: It’s their job. It’s their livelihood. That’s a little bit different. And then the paparazzi taking photos of people postpartum and picking them apart. Especially if they were big sex symbols before they had a child. But after the birth of each one of my kids, my focus was bonding with my baby and trying to get some sleep and trying to make the older kids not feel left out of the new baby. I mean, you know. I was not trying to do sit ups and crunches and go for runs. I was really – if I had 20 minutes, I was napping, because I was exhausted and that’s normal.


[00:19:47] MB: I feel like a lot of celebrities who had babies during the pandemic took a sigh of relief because they could have that time to do whatever they wanted and not feel obligated to go be in a premier, look a certain way for whatever, because it’s not fair. I mean, I don’t want to say like, “Oh, poor them”, because they have a lot of things. There are benefits and there are not benefits and that’s one of them. If you’re a celebrity of any sort, and you just have a baby, there’s some eyeball somewhere waiting to see how you look and you feel like you have to, or you have to go into some sort of hiding.


Hopefully, it’s just to bond with your child and to, like you said, even the dogs get weird after a baby comes home. You have to make sure you give attention to everyone, while you’re still trying to keep your new baby happy and healthy. So, there’s a lot of celebrity body dysmorphia issues happening from endorsements of diets to how quickly they bounce back from a pregnancy or whatever.


[00:20:48] KC: It’s crazy to me what a double standard people have between men and women, because there’s this, it’s relatively recent, this celebration of the dad bod and soft bodies of actors and men in their middle age time. Women don’t get that kind of grace. We don’t get that kind of forgiveness. I mean, we’re supposed to, I don’t know, be this idealized version, and stay 22 forever.


[00:21:16] MB: Which is crazy. Do you remember Marilyn Monroe, how she actually looked? Men would just like go nuts. She was not a size zero. She was not a size two. She had curves. She had rolls. And she felt like a sex symbol and people celebrated her. Where’s that body image? Why are we not celebrating that again?


[00:21:37] KC: Yeah, I don’t know.


[00:21:40] MB: Now we’re celebrating what I feel like is – remember Jessica Rabbit? People are trying to get – I’m sorry, I keep bringing them up, but that like weirdly, hourglass, towards like unrealistic. I just want curves to be cool again. I just want people to just love whoever they are. Because, like you said, you have daughters who are very – they’re in their teens, and like in their 20s, that’s super, super – those are the years that you’re assessing your body the most.


I have a nine-year-old who’s just coming into that world and she’s already asking me questions about her body that I’m like, “Really?” So, I’m wanting this to happen just so that our girls can be in a place where they can just love their bodies no matter what and not do some crazy thing in spring so that by summer they’re a certain body type. You know what I mean? It scares me to know that these people are endorsing a lifestyle that they, A, may not be living and B, is super, super dangerous to everybody else out there that’s watching them.


[00:22:43] KC: Yeah. What’s funny to me is that a lot of male actors who have to lose and gain weight for a movie role, whether they’re playing someone who’s really ill, like Christian Bale played someone who had like, cancer, I don’t remember what movie it was. But he got really, really thin.


[00:22:57] MB: Really, really small.


[00:22:58] KC: So did Matthew McConaughey when he was in that movie about the ‘80s AIDS epidemic, he got really, really thin for that role. I think Jared Leto has done that as well. They come out and they talk about how grueling it is on their body to lose and gain this much weight in such a short period of time and what they had to do to achieve that. They’re very honest about it. But when it’s female celebrities, and their weight fluctuates for whatever reason, they are really pressured to come out into the media and say that it was based on a new trainer or a new diet, or they went vegan or whatever it is.


[00:23:31] MB: “The salad recipe that I have.” Right? Something simple.


[00:23:38] KC: That’s just so negative and so harmful. We do have a few celebrities who have come out to say, “Stop talking about my body. I have eating problems. Maybe not an eating disorder, but I definitely have problems with food, please stop talking about my body.” I know, Audrey Hepburn’s family towards the end of her life and after, were talking about how she had problems with food, her whole career, and everyone celebrated the way she looked. That was very in vogue at the time, that kind of twiggy, really thin look. I know Angelina Jolie has come out and said, “Look, when I’m stressed, I don’t eat and it’s not healthy. And so, stop talking about my body in the press.”


[00:24:19] MB: Because they would pull her, pick her apart for a really long time about how thin she looked. Like she was constantly – remember that, Angelina Jolie was constantly in the headlines for being too thin. As a celebrity, if you see that, that’s a trigger, to continue to do whatever you’re doing. And so yeah, that sucks.


[00:24:36] KC: Yeah, and she has daughters. I’m sure that’s what she’s thinking about when she sees stuff like that on the cover of a magazine about picking apart her body. Demi Lovato has been really open about the media’s pressure for her to look a certain way caused some really severe mental health issues. I think if more celebrities were open about that, that would benefit society as a whole.


Because, you know, the next topic we want to talk about is body positivity, body neutrality, how all bodies are summer bodies. So, I think this is an issue that is not just for people who carry maybe a little extra weight or who have things about their body that they don’t like. It can just as much be about people who are thin. I feel like you get picked on no matter what your body looks like.


[00:25:22] MB: Yeah, you do.


[00:25:24] KC: People say, “Eat something.”


[00:25:27] MB: Yeah. I’ve always been thin. My whole life. I have a fast metabolism. And I remember being pregnant, I actually had someone come up to me and asked me if I’m trying to stay a certain weight while I was pregnant. Basically saying I looked underweight and malnourished. It’s just like, I just kept thinking, and then they thought it was maybe a compliment. I know a lot of people think like, “Oh, you look thin,” like it’s a compliment. It’s not a compliment. First of all, like, how dare anyone think that they have a right to come up and talk about anyone’s body on any level?


Secondly, you don’t know what your choice of words is going to go home and cause that person to make certain choices. You know what I mean? It’s just, whether you’re overweight or underweight, there’s body image issues on all spectrums, and I know a lot of people roll their eyes with the whole, “Oh, you’re thin. You don’t have those issues.” No, people do. It’s discouraging to only think that it’s a certain spectrum has that issue when it’s not.


[00:26:25] KC: Yeah. And you never know. If people dramatically gain or lose weight, you’re absolutely right. Just don’t comment on people’s bodies, because you don’t know what’s going on with their health situation, you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. Just stop talking about other people’s bodies, honestly. Even if you think it’s a compliment.


Because, so my husband’s Persian, as you know, and quite a bit older than me. I don’t know if it’s generational, but all of his friends in that community, like that’s how they greet each other. They all say, “Oh, hi. Wow, it looks like you’ve lost weight.” No matter whether it’s true or not. It’s like saying, “How are you?” But they say, “Oh, you look like you’ve lost weight”, to everyone all the time.


[00:27:05] MB: Really? Oh, my gosh.


[00:27:08] KC: I know it’s meant as a compliment. They say it out of like, it’s supposed to be sweet. But it’s just no longer acceptable to greet someone that way. I mean, I don’t correct them. It is what it is.


[00:27:22] MB: Yeah, even if you did, yeah, they’ll change, no.


[00:27:27] KC: No. It would be rude of me to do that. Because they really do think that they’re offering a compliment. But I was having issues with my immune system for a while and I was taking a medication that is like a very low dose of a chemotherapy drug. I did lose weight on it, not super dramatically, but noticeably, and people were like, “Oh, you look so great.” Not just people in my husband’s generation or culture, but people in general, “Oh, you look so great. You’ve lost weight.” And I was like, “Yeah, I’m taking a chemo drug. Thanks for asking.”


I mean, and they were so taken aback because they meant it as a compliment. But I was going through –


[00:28:02] MB: You thought you started some like eight-week new plan, and got a great trainer or something. And you’re like, “No, this is life.” That’s true. Not every transformation comes from this, “I’m going to decide to do things.” Sometimes people can just be going through some stuff, and it changes the way we are shaped.


[00:28:20] KC: Yeah, I was going through some pretty serious health issues. I was feeling the worst that I’d ever felt in my life. So, it wasn’t a time that I really wanted to celebrate my body or weight loss or whatever. And the same goes, if someone’s gained weight, you don’t know what they’re dealing with. They could be on a new medication. They could be balancing their medications. They could be pregnant and not ready to tell anybody. They could be a million things. Like, just shut up. Stop talking about people’s bodies.


[00:28:47] MB: They could be like they could be going through like relationship issues, and eating is what they’ve resorted to, to soothe them because their relationship is crumbling. It’s just such a complex thing that you are right, it is no longer acceptable to talk about because it is no longer so black and white. So, “Oh, I’m eating salads now and I’ve seen this trainer and I’m doing yoga.” It’s like no, it’s a mental thing too, sometimes.


[00:29:10] KC: Most of the time.


[00:29:12] MB: I know that when I’m stressed and I’m overwhelmed, I have two spectrums. I either eat all the bad things, or I don’t eat at all. And I’m already thin. So, there was a time period where I was just not eating at all or eating very little, and that’s why I started this new health journey because it’s forcing me to eat more. So, it’s like, people would see me and they would comment about how thin I looked. It got to a point where it was like they were concerned. But it’s even still when you’re concerned, I don’t really know when the appropriate time is to tell somebody or to really talk about someone’s body. I really don’t.


[00:29:49] KC: I don’t know that there is. If you are not their doctor, don’t comment on their body. You can comment on their overall wellbeing and their mental wellbeing and ask them if they’re okay. Please, please, ask the people if they’re okay.


[00:30:02] MB: If you feel like there’s something going on and it shows physically, don’t start with anything that’s physical related. Go deeper than the skin and what you see because there is stuff going on in there that you can talk to them about.


[00:30:16] KC: Yeah, let them know that you’re here for them if they need to talk to someone. Let them know that you’re worried about them, that you care. I mean, everyone needs to hear that. Not even about body issues, just checking in on people in general. That’s a good idea.


Unless you are their doctor, do not comment on their weight or their body. That’s my rule in general. It’s like asking a woman if she’s pregnant. Unless the baby’s head is crowning, or the baby’s head is crowning and she is giving birth in front of you, do not ask her if she’s pregnant.


[00:30:53] MB: Oh, man, because even if you’re right, no woman wants – I don’t know. You just don’t go there with weight, with all that.


[00:31:04] KC: Yeah. When I was pregnant with my youngest, my fourth child, I had had four kids in a very short period of time so, my body’s elasticity was just like, “See you later.” I was humongous. The large size maternity clothes stopped fitting me about six months in. I was wearing like men’s clothes from like the big – it was just ridiculous. And people would ask me all the time, “Oh, you’re about ready to pop, aren’t you?” I’m like, “I’m only six months pregnant.” Or they would be like, “Are you sure you’re not having twins or triplets?” And I’m like, “Well, the doctors know better than me and they say no, it’s just one baby. I’m just huge. Thank you for asking.”


I mean, I was already like – I just wanted to have a healthy baby. Obviously, that’s what everybody wants. But I was so uncomfortable in my skin and in my body that having other people feel like – and I feel like when you’re pregnant, everybody feels like they get to comment on your body, how big you are, how you’re –


[00:32:03] MB: Kick it. Feel it kick. No, they’re always checking in on your body and being vocal about it, and it’s weird.


[00:32:11] KC: Right. Or saying things about what you’re eating, what you’re not eating. People have given themselves this permission to totally violate pregnant women’s body space and headspace with their commentary. Tell them horrible delivery stories – I mean, it’s not good. Unless you know that person very well and that person is a close friend or family member, just let it go. Because in today’s world, too, people carry babies for other people. People might be giving that baby up for adoption. This might be a very emotional time for that person. They might not be happy about being pregnant. Anything could be the case. You don’t know their situation. So, just congratulate them if you want to. But otherwise, keep your mouth shut. Let pregnant women be.


[00:32:56] MB: Oh, man. It’s such a weird time. You’re right. Everyone feels like they have a right to give all these types of weird advice or tell their stories and they stick with you. I remember when I was pregnant Emma, with my first pregnancy. My friend, she told me that the epidural only worked on half her body, just the left side. I was like three months in and so I carried that story with me the whole way, up until like, I was all epiduralled up. I was like, “Okay, numb everywhere. We’re good now like.” Because they stick with you. You think you’re being – you’re having a conversation, you think it’s like not harmful. But no, it is. Just cheer the pregnant women on and don’t touch their bellies and don’t talk to them about their bodies. If they ask you an opinion or advice, for sure. But don’t just give unwarranted advice, or stories because it’s already a weird time.


[00:33:54] KC: I think that’s a good rule of thumb in general. Unless somebody asks for my opinion, I tend not to give it. If they ask me, I’m happy. I feel like I have a lot of wisdom to share. I’m happy to give it. But if no one’s asking me I’m keeping my mouth shut because I don’t know their whole situation. And for me to stick my nose in everything. It used to be that people would give you advice on the bus, sitting in a doctor’s office, like everywhere. People love to give – not just pregnant women, just in general. When my kids were small, older women, especially loved to give me unsolicited parenting advice. Or right before you get married, everyone loves to give you unsolicited marital advice. I just think as a rule, unless they ask –


[00:34:36] MB: Just keep it to yourself.


[00:34:38] KC: Yeah, because everybody’s situation is too individual.


[00:34:42] MB: Exactly. Do you feel like you’ve noticed a growth in seeing more curvaceous and more – I’m going to use the term normally shaped women in like bathing suit advertisements and commercials and stuff like that? I feel like we want to be like whatever we see a lot. If we see the curvy woman in her bathing suit, but she’s like the eighth woman back and all the women in front are like these trigger sending body images. But now the curvy woman I feel is more like in the forefront with her skinny girls hanging out on the side. I feel like, like at Target, I feel like I’ve seen a lot of curvy women being showcased. It could just be me. I just feel like that is a good direction and like the, “Everybody is a summer body,” thing. When you see literally every body being represented in this high, big, overdone commercials and posters when you’re walking.


[00:35:43] KC: I think, the first time I noticed it was with the Dove ads for real bodies where they didn’t retouch and they had every size, color, shape, whatever. I think that campaign really opened people’s conversations up to the subject of inclusivity, and diversity in media. And it’s not just body types. It’s also skin colors, and ethnicities, and disabilities. I mean everything. I think that was an eye opener for a lot of people that maybe for the first time, they had seen someone who actually looked like them in a magazine ad. And they realized how great that made them feel. I think it opened up the discussion to how many other groups of people had never seen themselves in a big media campaign, whether that’s women who wear hijab, someone in a wheelchair, different ethnicities, whatever it is, that they don’t really get pushed out to the forefront of media campaigns. Or even age issues. Everyone wants to hit 18 and 35. But now we see women in major cosmetics campaigns with gray hair and older, over 60 even. I think that’s fantastic.


I also think we’re just starting to see like Sports Illustrated Swimsuit models, and some Victoria’s Secret models a little bit larger sized, where they call them plus size models. Now, plus size models could be size eight. They could be a size eight and be considered a plus size model. So, it’s not – still, I mean, the average American woman is a size 14. So, it’s still maybe not completely representative of what our actual bodies look like. Or like the mom body, the mom tummy. If you’ve had a lot of kids, and you have that, like I call it my kangaroo pouch, where my babies were kept. There are influencers now who make it a point to post bikini photos with their kangaroo pouch hanging out. I love it. I love it. Because when you see a representative of yourself in the media, it just makes you feel like, “Okay, there’s nothing wrong with me, this is normal and should be celebrated.” Everybody should be celebrated for exactly who they are. I love that.


I think that lends itself to body neutrality, where we’re not hating on our bodies, we’re not celebrating a specific ideal. It’s our bodies function to do a million things for us every day and the way they look should be very low on that list. Our bodies get us around. They keep us alive. They let us do sports. They let us do active things. There’s a lot our bodies do for us every day and looking hot to the opposite sex is probably very low on the list of priorities, or it should be. It really should be.


I mean, when my daughters were like a little, probably starting at Emma’s age, I had them in sports and one of the things that I really pushed for them was anytime they achieved something in a sport, a goal they had set for themselves, was, “Look at how strong your body is. Look at what your body can do for you. Look at all the things that you’re accomplishing by having a strong body.” I tried to kind of refocus their perspective versus like, looking at Victoria’s Secret at the time was pretty, pretty bad, to celebrating their body for the achievements it was doing in their activities.


I think that really gave them a healthier perspective when they were teenagers. Because they were nationally ranked athletes at one time. I think having the kind of body that could perform what they needed it to perform in competition was more important to them at that time than having a particular look.


I know my older daughter would complain sometimes that she thought she was too muscley, because her body didn’t look like the advertisements at Abercrombie or whatever. But I would remind her, like, “Look what your body can do. Look at what you’ve achieved with that body.”


[00:39:38] MB: I remember.


[00:39:37] KC: Yeah, you were around then. You remember.


[00:39:40] MB: I remember her, all the amazing things she can do. I just remember her being conscious, self-conscious about that. It just sucks that we – and now we live in an even more toxic situation where we have like filters on Instagram where you don’t even have to look like yourself anymore. And apps that you can bring your butt out and tone your waist in and it’s like, what you’re seeing isn’t even like a real person. It’s like literally a chopped up version, filtered version.


I’m guilty of using filters, probably most of the time that I’m on Instagram, and that’s just because like, “Hi, I have kids. I don’t have time to make it look like that.” If you can throw on some fake lashes, that’ll save me five minutes. But I mean, when my nine-year-old uses it, and she sees herself with a full thing of makeup. Of course, she feels great. But it’s also making me think, “What is that doing to her psyche?” And making her think like, “Oh, well, this is me without it. I’m nothing. And this is me with it, now I’m something.” We have all these things that celebrities aren’t even endorsing, that are just causing and triggering us at all ages to think that like, us as we are not enough. We have to constantly tone up, tan up, smooth out, like shape something. And we just need to get to a point where we just start loving who we are for who we are.


The more campaigns like the Dove campaign. My girls really love Barbies and Barbie has a whole line of dolls. We have dolls in our house that have wheelchairs, that have no hair, that have one leg, that have – I’m not sure what the skin condition is, that it’s called, where some parts of your skin are a different color. One, I think it’s really important to have those dolls around so that they understand that there’s more than just this blonde, little shaped Barbie doll out there. But also, how cool is it to finally walk the aisles and see somebody that looks like you. I think that’s important for all ages. Because then you’re loving yourself for who you are and you’re being seen for who you are and accepted for who you are. You’re not being told that you have to constantly change because the thing you’re playing with, or the person you’re watching, looks different than you.


So, I think it’s important to put inclusivity, yes, in the young doll section. But also, in like the ages when you’re, like you said 60 and you don’t see anybody like you in commercials anymore. “What am I worthless now?” No, there are beautiful women out there that are 60 and 70 up that could totally rock it, probably better than me, but they’re not being seen, because society makes them feel like they’re not worthy of being seen. So, the more we include all kinds of people, ethnicity, shapes, sizes, it’s just going to be a better place for everyone to live in. And we’ll prioritize our lives a little bit better, and not put so much of an emphasis on our looks, which, yeah, you should feel confident and feel pretty, but to yourself, whatever version that is to you, not because somebody else told you to look like that.


[00:42:33] KC: That’s one of the things I think is so important when you have kids, especially daughters, that you make sure that you compliment them on everything that they are achieving because the way that they look, when you’re a child, is not an achievement. When you’re an adult, you can look really put together, you can spend time on your appearance and you can work out, do your makeup like really, really well, which I cannot do. Anytime I see somebody with their makeup done really well I’m like, “Oh, teach me.”


[00:43:01] MB: Teach me.


[00:43:01] KC: Yeah. Or, you know, they put their clothes together really well or they are really fit, whatever it is that you can actually compliment someone. Because it takes effort, when you’re older, to pull yourself together. As a kid, the way you look is not an achievement. And when my daughters were small, they would get a lot of compliments from people, strangers, whatever, family members, on the way that they looked. So, I really had to kind of counterbalance that by telling them all the time, “The way you look is just like some weird genetic lottery. Like you pulled the slot machine handle and you got all sevens, but you didn’t achieve any. But that was an accomplishment. You did nothing for that.”


So, that’s not an asset. Don’t think of it as an asset because that’s a really dangerous space to live your life. It’s easy when you’re conventionally attractive to rely on that and let everything else kind of fall away. For women, that’s a dangerous place to live. Because for one, it’s not permanent. It’s fleeting, and all your life, you’re going to be relying on something that wasn’t something that you achieved on your own. So, if you focus on kids, telling them that they’re smart, they’re strong, they’re a good friend, they’re a good sister, all the things that they can actually have control over, because they don’t have control over the way that they look when they’re a child.


So, if you focus on things that they have control over and that they can actually be proud of as an achievement, I think that changes the game a lot if you start that when they’re small. Because if everyone’s always constantly telling them how cute they are, how pretty they are, “What a pretty little princess,” whatever, they do start to kind of rely on that a little bit and that’s when they can take the job that’s a pretty girl job, rather than a job that maybe they actually qualified for and got based on achievement. That’s a slippery slope, right? Because, it can really go south. So, you want to make sure that they know that they are capable of being a lot of things and that they don’t owe anyone being pretty. They don’t owe anybody or society by looking a certain way. They can look however they want. They have a specific style or look that they love, let them rock it. Don’t tell them, “Oh, no.”


[00:45:18] MB: “Change it,” because it’s not on brand with whatever you’re trying to do. Just let them be themselves and celebrate that. But also, don’t highlight just what’s on the outside, you’re right, highlight the things that they’re achieving, and the person that they are, the things that really matter at the end of the day. How kind they are, all those things. It starts young, because that’s all where it starts.


[00:45:43] KC: Those are their assets; their brain, their strength, their character, their integrity, their relationships that they build with their friends. Those are assets. The way that they look, not an asset. As women we can, we can make that an asset. I mean, from the beginning of time, right? We can monetize the way that we look –


[00:46:04] MB: Utilize it as a tool for – but it is not all people have to offer, and all they should spend their time and their energy focusing on.


[00:46:13] KC: Yeah, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with women who monetize their bodies and the way that they look. I don’t see it as any different than a big strong man being a mover. He’s utilizing his body in a way that makes him money, because he happens to be strong enough and have the muscles to do that. So, I have no problem with women who monetize their bodies, or the way that they look, at all. But I think we need to give our daughters choices. We need to let them know that they have a lot of choices, and that they can do whatever they want to do, whether that involves using their bodies, using their minds, just to let them know everything is an option for them, that widens their perspective rather than narrows it. That’s really important, especially now in the media that we have now. I think, like you said, advertisers are starting to recognize how important it is to be inclusive and to be diverse.


[00:47:05] MB: But they could be adding to the problem, slightly, by selecting certain people and only certain people to be seen on these huge platforms. When you walk into Target, those huge images or the commercials, they are adding to the problem when they’re only casting certain types of bodies and people and ethnicities.


[00:47:27] KC: Yeah, and abilities, like everything. I think you’re right, when you can walk down the doll aisle at the store and see someone who looks like you, it makes you feel worthy and represented. That’s been missing for a long time. So, that’s a huge – I mean, we’re getting there. We’re making huge progress.


[00:47:43] MB: And there are certain brands that have woken up and those are the brands that I will put my energy and time towards and endorse and be all about. Then there are ones that are just so stuck in whatever they’re doing, because it’s making them money, and they don’t care how toxic it is. Those are the ones that are [inaudible 0:48:02]. We’re moving in the right direction, and eventually they’ll have to join in because no one likes people feeling insecure about their bodies. I don’t care how much money it’s going to make you. No one likes to feel the way it feels when we feel that way. When we feel, when we wake up and feel like we’re at a 10 just the way we are, and we don’t have to do a thing about it, what we’re providing for the world through our brain and our character and our integrity, and that is more important, then that’s going to be the best place to be. All the other stuff is great.


[00:48:32] KC: I for one, as a consumer, I know that I’m super privileged. I’m white, I’m heterosexual, I’m cisgender, I have my full abilities. I’m probably one of the most privileged segments of people. So, I think for me, it’s important that I vote with not only voting, but with my dollars. I vote as a consumer with how I spend my money. Even though I’ve always seen myself represented in ads, it’s more important than ever that I look around and I notice brands, like you said, that are promoting diversity and inclusivity, and I need to pay attention to that as a consumer so that I can put my dollars behind brands that are representing, at least in their advertising, what I think is the right direction. And then, from there we go to the next step of, okay, are they actually representing this kind of diversity and inclusion in their corporate board and in their employee percentages?


[00:49:28] MB: Is it just for show or is it all-round a good place to be? I think that too.


[00:49:33] KC: Because a lot of brands are doing this thing we call woke washing, where it’s performative allyship. It’s a good step. We don’t want to reprimand companies who are at least taking the first baby steps. And then we have to hope that the actual structural work behind that will follow. Because if we’ve all voted with our dollars, and they see that these advertising campaigns that are inclusive are earning them money, corporate America, that’s what they listen to. They listen to the dollars.


So, we have to promote that. And then once they get there, we start calling them out on on the corporate diversity and that’s the next step. I think as a society, we are becoming more and more aware of things like this and we are being more and more vocal about what we expect from the companies that we support. So, that’s super important.


[00:50:26] MB: It’s uncomfortable when you support a company and then you find out, really behind the scenes, they are a certain way and you’re like, “Well, now I feel duped.” We don’t like to feel duped. We don’t like to feel lied to. So that is equally as important as what you’re showing us. We want to make sure that you’re also in line with what you’re showing us because if it’s all for show, then this magic trick isn’t working for me.


[00:50:49] KC: Yeah, I was on TikTok last night, and I watched this TikTok about the company Lane Bryant which is a very, very old company for women who are a plus size or in between and I’ve always thought, you know, that is so important what they’re doing, because it can be so hard to find a lot of sizing. At least it was, it’s starting to get so much better.


[00:51:11] MB: Yeah, like stylish clothes at a certain sizing where you didn’t feel like you just had to throw on anything. That was important and hard to find for a while.


[00:51:19] KC: Lane Bryant has always promoted themselves as a female founded, female run company. And they are female founded. They were actually the first company to make maternity wear commercial, which was so important, also. But this TikTok that I watched last night was about how Lane Bryant is actually run all by men, and like their CEO, their VPS, their SVP, are men. Now, I have not like fact checked that, but that was so eye opening to me.


[00:51:46] MB: It makes you wonder.


[00:51:48] KC: When I started the website, I went to a lot of the other websites that I’ve always read and thought that would kind of be competitor domains to ours and I was very surprised how a lot of these websites who are geared towards women as we are, are fully led by men or founded by men. It shocked me. Because I just assumed that they were female led or female founded. That was not the case with a lot of them. I’m not going to call them out specifically on here, because they are our competitors. That’s kind of not very nice.


I do think, if you have a company that you love, and you support, and you see them doing positive things, spend your dollars on that. That’s how we, as a capitalist society, vote, and also check out their corporate structure. Read their Wikipedia page, whatever it is, and see that their corporate values are kind of mirroring the values that they’re promoting and they’re advertising, because a lot of times they’re not. We do need to know that. We need to do a little more research on how we spend our money, because that’s really what’s going to make a change.


[00:52:50] MB: As an influencer, there was a brand, I won’t name it. But there was a brand that I worked with, that I really loved working with and I found out that they were like major Trump supporters. I’m not personally – that doesn’t align with who I am. As far as like, I don’t think that because they voted differently politically, I need to cancel them completely. But what I’m representing also, it shows on me and so it’s like, I didn’t know that. But I didn’t do any research. I just really liked their brand, what they look like, what I saw from the face value. That’s the point I’m trying to make is that I didn’t do any research on the people I was partnering with, and to make sure they were in line with what I like to live my life as. They can live their life the way they want. But if it’s not what I would normally support, I’d want to know that. So, it is very important to do your research on things that you’re maybe regularly spending your money on or following to make sure that it is something that you are down with whatever that is.


If they’re doing anything at all in their company that doesn’t align with what you thought they were doing, then maybe you should consider putting your money somewhere else that’s similar, that is more in line with what you’re down with. You know what I mean? That’s your choice as a consumer. You can make that choice. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, because you don’t want to put your money there anymore, because you saw something, that’s your choice. There are so many options out there, and we should put our money towards things that are working in the positive direction, whatever that is.


So yeah, I love the fact that I’m now seeing more people of shapes and sizes and color being not – I mean, they were kind of there, you know what I mean? But now they’re like in the front, like they’re representing the – and not just in the front in like a moo-moo style one piece, like homegirls’ rocking a two piece with confidence and she’s got a shaved head and she’s curvy, and it’s beautiful. You know what I mean? That’s the kind of thing that gets me fired up when I see that because I’m like, that would have never, ever, ever been even considered not that long ago. And now we’re in a world where it’s like, you see that and you see it, and that’s the first thing you see when you walk in and like that is where I want to spend my money, when people are moving going in the right direction.


[00:55:02] KC: Yeah, for so long the media fed us this line about how there is one type of body that’s beautiful. There is one type of aesthetic that’s beautiful. And we were just supposed to accept that. So, if your personal tastes didn’t mirror that, you had to ask yourself, “What’s wrong with me?”


[00:55:19] MB: Or, “How can I accept that person? How can I change myself to look like that?”


[00:55:24] KC: Right. Or if you were attracted to a different body type than that, or a different look than that, “What’s wrong with me?” was the mindset. So, for the fact that we don’t have this narrow definition of what’s beautiful anymore and we can celebrate every different type, to me, the most beautiful thing a person can be is authentic to themselves. When you see someone who is living their authentic life and is just happy with where they are, and they don’t feel repressed, and they don’t feel like they have to conform to anything, and they’re just out there living happily, that to me –


[00:55:54] MB: An unfiltered life and not worrying about what everybody else is thinking. And you can tell who those people are.


[00:56:02] KC: Yeah, they’re radian. It’s so positive.


[00:56:05] MB: Because they’ve accepted themselves, wholly, and they’re not looking for outside people to tell them that they’re worthy, or that that’s good.


[00:56:16] KC: That’s really important. That we have people from every different background, every different demographic represented and celebrated as beautiful, not included and, “Okay, we covered everything.” No, actually celebrated. I think we’re on track for that. I think that’s starting to happen and that makes me really, really happy. It makes me really, really happy for my daughters. It makes me really, really happy for my granddaughter. I think, just thinking that – she’s nine, she’s Emma’s age, just makes me happy that maybe they’ll grow up in a time and place that is so different from how I did in the ‘80s and early ‘90s. It was all Pamela Anderson and that was the way you were supposed to look.

[00:56:56] MB: We all have our Pam Anderson of our time. It’s just crazy. It starts so young, and you just want so badly to look like that and it’s because the opinions that you care about have put importance on that. Well, “Men like that, so that’s what I have to look like so that men like me.” No. It’s like, that’s not what’s important. But you can say it all you want to a 9, 10, 11, 14-year-old, 22-year-old, they’re still going to go through that completely normal stage of like comparison and trying to fit in and trying to figure out who they are. But the added stuff that we have going on now, that’s the part that we want to stop because that will always – you will always have to go through that on some level. But now it’s unrealistic and unfair.


If we keep going in a certain direction, it’s gotta kind of change because it’s just not going to be fair for your granddaughter, or Emma or – Kensey is four, I don’t even want to think about it. I don’t even want to think about what age she’s going to be when that becomes a thing and what that’s going to look like. I’m hoping that it’ll be better. I’m hoping that, you know when you’re four, and you can wear all the mismatched things and feel like at a hundred, I want that four-year-old confidence. The things she wore to school. No, I don’t get it. But she feels like a 10 right now. She’s like, “Walked into school like Beyoncé, like, look at me in my wish hat and my Halloween outfit with my Christmas necklace and my pink sparkly boots. I’m 10.” I want everyone to be like that. We’re all so insecure with what we need to change so that we look a certain way. Just rock you. Rock the weird boots and the Christmas necklace.


[00:58:32] KC: Yeah, and I think that’s the end goal and we’re getting closer to it every day, where we can live externally, the way we see ourselves internally. However, we imagine our avatar to be inside our head, when we can actually be that person in our everyday life and it’s fine. You can wear something unconventional to work. You can dye your hair purple. You can have tattoos that are visible, you can do whatever you want.


[00:58:58] MB: We’re getting there. For the first time. I know it’s weird, because I know everything about Disneyland. But Disneyland is now allowing their cast members to be seen with tattoos. I mean, obviously Snow White can’t have a tattoo, but like, you used to be able to not have different color hair, facial hair was not allowed, you couldn’t have tattoos. And now people are like being – they can be themselves because I think somebody told them that making them conform to a certain look is like mentally unhealthy. They can be themselves now and I think that’s great.


[00:59:25] KC: Yeah, I think for all of our mental health, us living our authentic lives and being who we see ourselves to be, being able to be that on the outside and be accepted by society. You can have a grown-up job and have tattoos or facial hair or whatever. You can be a mom and have purple hair and dress however you want. I mean, you can do anything you want. I think we’re getting there and I’m so happy to see that.


[00:59:51] MB: Me too. Well, this was a good conversation. I could talk about this topic all day, especially, for anyone with daughters especially, this topic could go on and on and on. This is a good one.


[01:00:04] KC: Yeah. Well, thank you everybody for joining us today and we’ll be back next week with a new episode. I think we did pretty good today considering that neither one of us felt prepared.


[01:00:14] MB: No. And we went longer than we normally do.


[01:00:17] KC: Yeah, because we have a lot to say.


[01:00:18] MB: It’s such a topic that’s like, just especially with summer coming in too and people now – that’s the thing is like, 2020 no one saw anybody. You could rock sweat pants all year and no one would care. But now people are traveling again, they might be seen in the summer. And it’s like, “Well, now I gotta get back in summer bod shape.” So, this is a good topic because I think it’s back again on everybody’s mind, because people are getting out and about bit more.


[01:00:41] KC: Right and their bodies might be different than they were pre COVID quarantine.


[01:00:47] MB: Love them for it. The bikini body, step one, put a bikini on your body. Step two, you’re done. You have a bikini body. That’s it. Don’t overthink it.


[01:00:57] KC: Exactly. All right. Well, I will talk to you next week. Thanks everybody for joining us.


[01:01:03] MB: Thank you. Bye.




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