July 26, 2021

Podcast Episode #12: How To Be A Quitter

when to quit

Many of us have the entrenched belief that once we have committed to something, we have to stick it out no matter what. But if something, be it a job, relationship, or role no longer brings you joy, do you have to stick with it if it? In today’s episode, Megan and Kelly talk about the courageous act of quitting. Walking away from something is never easy, but is it important to have faith that whatever lies ahead of you is better than what you leave behind. Conflating quitting with failing can often keep you stuck in situations that are toxic and unhealthy. Kelly and Megan share how quitting has presented them with opportunities they would not have otherwise had. We also hear about how to know when to leave and when to stay, the value in walking away from relationships and friendships that you outgrow, and why you are never too old to try something new. Thankfully, we live in a time where being your authentic self is celebrated, and this means you do not have to stick to commitments just to fulfill external expectations. You deserve a life where you are the best version of yourself, and everything you do should help you get there. So, if there is something you have always wanted to try or let go of, then this show will help give you the courage to take the first step.

Read The Full Article Here:

Here’s Why Being A “Quitter” Is Actually A Positive Thing

Key Points From This Episode:

  • Our Monet shop has opened, so go check it out!

  • How Kelly’s upbringing influenced her views on quitting.

  • The younger generation views quitting so differently than the older generation.

  • Quitting is a big step, no matter what facet of your life it is in.

  • Sometimes quitting means raising your standards and getting closer to the life you want.

  • Work is not always going to be exhilarating constantly, but it should not be draining.

  • We deserve to be our authentic selves.

  • Quitting takes a lot of courage because it forces you to take responsibility.

  • How Kelly finally got the courage to leave her 10-year marriage.

  • You have to unlearn a lot of what you have learned in childhood.

  • In a relationship, it is you and your partner versus the problem, not you versus your partner.

  • How to know when to quit and how to know when to stick it out.

  • Often entrepreneurial success stories involve quitting something before finding success.

  • Sometimes we have to let things go to open up room for other, more fitting things.

  • You do not have to stay in a relationship or friendship because of shared history.

  • Sometimes, you also have to quit a hobby.

  • The right people should not judge you; they should support you.

  • Why Kelly believes parents should not put expectations on their children.

  • You do not have to publicize anything you are quitting or starting.

  • It is fine to be a beginner at something you try. 

  • Happiness is a choice that we make and it is what we are on earth to feel.


“We have to shift our mindset of what quitting means to us.” — Kelly Castillo [0:06:32]

“Sometimes quitting can just be like accepting that that is no longer bringing you joy.” — Megan Block [0:07:33]

“It’s scary going into the world of being single after being in a relationship for so long, or going into the world without a job after being and thinking you’re going to do this one thing for so long. It’s like, super scary. But you gotta take that leap, you got to have the courage, and then you got to be optimistic.” — Megan Block [0:36:51]

“In order for us to say yes to the things that are meant for us, sometimes we have to say no to the things that are not and that’s a hard thing to do.” — Kelly Castillo [0:37:40]

“It’s okay to make a course correction. The earlier you do it, the less you’re going to lose, the less time, the less expectations.” — Kelly Castillo [0:46:32]

“We have to normalize changing our minds.” — Kelly Castillo [0:55:36]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Kelly Castillo

Megan Block

She’s A Full On Monet

She’s A Full On Monet on Twitter

She’s A Full On Monet Discussion Board Facebook Group

View Transcript



[00:00:01] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to She’s a Full On Monet, a digital lifestyle magazine for women. Every week, our Editor-In-Chief, Kelly Castillo, along with Megan Black and special guests, participate in a deep-dive discussion about recent articles and topics we have covered. We invite you to become part of our community, where everyone’s welcome.




[00:00:26] KC: Thank you guys for coming back. Again, this is Episode 12 of She’s A Full On Monet. I’m your host, Kelly. And I have with me as always, Megan.


[00:00:36] MB: Hi everybody. Episode 12, I hear you, but I still don’t believe it.


[00:00:39] KC: it’s gone by so fast.


[00:00:41] MB: I feel like we’ve been doing it forever. But when I hear 12, I’m like, “There’s no way we’ve recorded 12 episodes.”


[00:00:47] KC: I know, it’s really crazy. Well, we have some exciting things, we want to talk about. Our Monet store opened and if you guys did not see our social media posts about that, or the article that we posted about it, please take a moment and check it out. It’s basically a gift shop for your best girlfriend, your sister, for yourself. Really, we have a wide variety of stuff on there and it’s a platform for us to be able to support small businesses. So, every item on the website is made from a female owned small business, you can’t find any of it on Amazon, we are really trying to give a platform to little side hustles that women like us have and help them to kind of get their products out there.


So, we would love for you to take a look at it. If you do order something from us as a gift, we beautifully package it. We try to use sustainable materials whenever we can. And our shipping is pretty fast. So, I definitely recommend you check it out. I think there’s some pretty cool stuff on there. But I’d love to hear everybody’s opinions.


Today we are going to be talking about quitting. How to be a quitter.


[00:01:51] MB: Yay.


[00:01:53] KC: I think this is a topic that is kind of personal for me. Because I mean, I was raised by my dad, and he has really old school values. So, he had always taught me from day one, “If you make a commitment, you stick to it. And if you’re going to do a job, you do it with all your effort. Don’t do anything half ass.” And I was often told, when I wanted to quit a sport or an instrument or something that I had made a commitment on, I needed to stick it out. So, that really stuck with me and it became part of my personal value system as well. 


But I did learn as I became a young adult that that didn’t always serve me for the best. I realized that that mentality that made me think of quitting as failure, or as weakness really kept me in situations that were toxic for me, and kept me in relationships and jobs that were really a bad fit. I didn’t want to quit. I didn’t want to leave because I didn’t want to “give up”. And that’s what quitting felt like to me. 


So, we’re going to talk today about changing that mindset and when it’s appropriate to quit, and when are you actually like chickening out on something or not fulfilling your commitments, because I still hold that value. It’s still important to me. But at the same time, I need to be honest with myself about things that just no longer serve me and things I’ve grown out of and things that are toxic. So, I think a lot of women in our generation really do need to hear this, I think this is going to be a good episode.


[00:03:24] MB: Wow. Like that just blew my mind because I’m very similar, in how I was raised. And I think when you’re a parent, you also teach your kids the same thing. But it touches on so many parts of your life, like relationships and work relationships and jobs that it’s like, if that’s your mentality, you’re going to take that through everything. So, I can relate in a lot of ways. And it’s hard for me to quit things that I start because then I feel like I failed. But sometimes it’s just that’s like a blessing in disguise and you need to roll with it. 


[00:03:56] KC: Yeah, I think we need to normalize quitting as an option. But we don’t live in the same time period that our parents lived in. I mean, I know your parents are the same. My parents are the same. Like you started a job and you stayed at that job and got your yearly promotion or whatever, pretty much for your career, unless you were transferred, or there was some other big opportunity that came along. But for the most part, I mean, people stayed in jobs for 30, 40, 50 years and got their gold Rolex when they retired or whatever the –


[00:04:22] MB: Yeah, there’s always an award for being there forever.


[00:04:27] KC: I see like my children’s generation, people in their 20s, they don’t have that mindset at all. They are perfectly happy to pivot, change careers completely or take a better opportunity when it presents itself even if that means quitting a stable, financially stable and solid job. I mean, that was unheard of. My dad’s time, you did not quit your job because there was no guarantee there would be a job lined up. His grandmother, I mean, my grandmother, his mother was a product of the great depression and also World War II and she did not, I mean, you did not give up something financially stable for uncertainty. That was crazy talk. But I see my kids don’t have that mindset at all. They are fine. They’re like Tarzan swinging from branch to branch from job to job until they get where they want to be.


[00:05:15] MB: Emma actually said the other day, my oldest, she’s nine. And of course, when you’re nine, the world is your oyster and everything is possible, right? But she actually said, she just laid out her life plan for me. She wants to be like a nanny first and then she wants to be a horse trainer. And then when she has kids, she wants to be a teacher. And I was like, first my thought was like, “Okay, are you Barbie who can do 15 professions?” But then I was like, “Wow, that’s cool that you” – that it’s not just like a full streamline of like, “Oh, I’m going to be a teacher for 40 years and then retire.” You know what I mean? It was like, “Oh, I’m going to do this. And then I’m going to have a career shift, because I want to do all these things and they interest me.” And of course, I encouraged it, because I thought it was great.


But now I’m thinking, if I had said that to my parents, or if my parents had said that to their parents, they would look at them, like, “I’m sorry, what? You’re going to do what? That’s three things. You pick one thing. You go to college and you study for that thing, and then you do that thing for 50 years, and then you retire.” It’s like, “That doesn’t sound very fun.” So, I just think it’s cool that our kids don’t have that set mindset that they have to do one thing and that they can’t shift their path in life, and it’s not a failure thing. It’s cool. It’s cool to explore new things and it’s cool to try new things. It’s cool to have a career shift late in life. Some people see that as a failure. And it’s like, no, not really.


[00:06:32] KC: No. We have to shift our mindset of what quitting means to us. And I think, like I said, quitting to me in the past has meant failure, has meant weakness, has meant not fulfilling my responsibilities, and not being the person that I saw myself as. That was a big thing. I want my actions to align with my value system and quitting didn’t seem like that for me.


[00:06:54] MB: You feel like you were going to let someone down too, like, there was the feeling like if you didn’t do it, someone would be disappointed.


[00:07:00] KC: Yeah, I like to think of myself as the kind of person who’s not a flake who shows up when they say they’re going to show up, who does what they say they’re going to do. So, quitting, to me, the definition I had in my head of quitting, didn’t line up with that. But the few times in my life, when I have just finally had enough and quit something or left a relationship or something like that has been the biggest periods of growth for me and the best outcomes. So, I think we need to change our focus and think instead of quitting as being a failure, thinking of starting over of a new opportunity –


[00:07:32] MB: A hard reset. Sometimes quitting can just be like accepting that that is no longer bringing you joy, and it’s time to shift and reset, because sometimes it has nothing to do with work. It could be something personal. It could be something that you’ve been doing for a while, because you feel like everyone around you expects it of you, but it’s not really fulfilling you and you’re afraid of what that might do to the people around you. So, quitting it, it takes a big step, to quit anything personal, whether it’s a relationship, or whether it’s a job, or whether it’s, a hobby and you want to try something new. It’s hard to just look and go, “Okay. I kind of like, want to not do this anymore.” You have to make the decision, and you have to, like, be at peace with that decision.


[00:08:22] KC: And I think right now, in the world that we live in with social media, when we make a public declaration of, “I’m going to do this”, or “I just got this new job”, or “We’re engaged”, or whatever the thing is, and then later, you changed your mind. You feel like, “Oh, my gosh, what does everyone going to think when I announced that I’m no longer doing that?” First of all, you don’t owe anybody an announcement really, honestly, about anything. But also, quitting is also kind of taking responsibility for whatever you’re doing that makes your life closer to where you want it to be.


[00:08:53] MB: It’s setting yourself free. It’s allowing yourself to be free of this tether, whatever’s tethering you.


[00:09:03] KC: Yeah, exactly. And sometimes quitting can mean raising your standards. It can mean outgrowing relationships, whether that’s a friendship or a partnership. I know a lot of people who were together since like high school, and you don’t always grow on the same trajectory, and that’s okay. I mean, I think a lot of people have in their mind that if they split up with someone or they get divorced from someone, that means that someone had to do something really horrible. Like it had to be an affair situation or an abuse situation, or I think we don’t have to hold ourselves to such rigid standards. I’m not saying everyone should just willy-nilly go get divorced. I think it’s a huge decision. But I also think if what’s happening in your day to day life, if you’re not happy in like the day to day mundane things in your life, then you really need to take a look at all the situations in your life that are contributing to that. It may be time to admit to yourself that you’ve outgrown something. A relationship or that something is no longer meeting your standards, and that’s okay.


[00:09:59] MB: It may not just be about happiness. I mean, some people have jobs that don’t make them happy, necessarily. But they’ve been thinking about quitting for a while. And it’s like, not every job is going to be roses and butterflies, right? But if it’s literally like, sucking the health from you, if it’s affecting the way you eat, sleep, live your life, if it’s overly exhausting your emotions and your stress level, and it’s just not serving you to the point where it’s causing you to be a different person, then, yeah, maybe it’s time to shift and quit and move on. With jobs, it’s like, “oh, I’m not happy here, I’m going to quit.” Well, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes know when to quit is the tough part, right? Because it’s like –


[00:10:43] KC: Yeah, it’s a fine line.


[00:10:44] MB: Sometimes you got to push through and sometimes you got to find joy in these moments. But then also, you also have to call a spade, a spade, and know when it’s time to quit.


[00:10:55] KC: Right. It’s a fine line. Because hard work is called hard work for a reason, it’s not fun every second of the day. I mean, there are a lot of parts of working as an adult person that aren’t, going to be super fun all the time. And we shouldn’t have that expectation. But if something, if you’re in a position in your life and a job position, that is setting you up for the life that you want, and the place that you want to be, then by all means trudge through the mundane parts of it and do it.


[00:11:21] MB: Or the really exhausting parts. Your daughter, at some point, all of them gone through really tough things. But Sam has pushed through some really tough stuff in her career path, and had to like sacrifice. There are moments where you have to push through tough stuff to get to that other side. But you have to be realistic too. You know going in it, it’s going to require that.


[00:11:42] KC: But if a job is actually hurting you mentally and even physically, because we do exhibit our mental stress in physical ways, if you have a job, where every Sunday, you’re just dreading the next day knowing you have to go back to that place and it’s causing you to be really unhealthy and feels toxic to you, then that’s something you really need to examine whether it’s worth whatever benefit you’re getting from it. Because there are so many options out there for careers and work environments, that you have every right to make decisions based on what you feel is best for you. And just because you went to school for something, if you find out later that you don’t enjoy that thing, and it’s not adding to your life, it’s not taking you, making you into the person that you want to be, then you don’t need to stick with that even if that’s what your degree is. You can pivot and be something completely different.


That’s the wonderful thing about the world that we live in today. Everybody gets to be their authentic self. It’s the first time in history that’s ever happened. So, we really all need to embrace that, not just people who normally would have had to really hide their authentic selves. Everybody should be embracing being authentic, even if that disappoints some people.


[00:12:55] MB: Do you think that like knowing when to quit is like a gut thing? Because like, you know deep down when you examine these things, and if your soul, if your mind and body is telling you that this isn’t working, whatever that thing is, because it’s a situation to situation, person to person thing, because whether we’re talking about relationships, or work or whatever it is, if it’s like that voice that doesn’t go away, that it’s just like, you know whether –


[00:13:22] KC: Generally, we do know. I mean, I tell my kids, they’re adults, right? I tell them if they have a hard decision to make and they’re really conflicted in their heart, flip a coin. And I don’t mean like, who cares one way or the other or take it so lightly. But in my experience, when I’ve had that mindset of flipping a coin, that moment where the coin is flipping up in the air, I’m wishing for one particular answer. I’m wishing it was heads or tails. And that will tell me what I really want. If I flip it, and I go, “Oh, please let it be heads.” Then I know that’s the decision that I want to make. I’m just waiting for someone to validate it for me and justify it for me.


So, you usually know. You’re struggling, maybe not with the decision itself, but of your imagined consequences for that decision. So, what you’re struggling with is, “I really want to do this, but I’m afraid what my parents will say. I’m afraid what my friends will say. I’m afraid of all these things.” My daughter, Sam, like you were talking about, she got into her master’s program in Savannah, Georgia and moved across the country. She had like very little support. A lot of her friends were saying, “That’s crazy. Who wants to move? You’re you live in California. Everyone wants to move here. Why are you doing that? There are schools here.” She was in a relationship and the person who’s in a relationship with had never even been to Georgia, and she did not have any expectation that he would come with her.


So, she was ready to say goodbye to that relationship. She was ready to lose friends. She was ready to be the best version of herself. The version of herself that she saw that she could be, she was working towards that, and anything that didn’t align with that she was ready to let it go. And thankfully that didn’t happen. She kept her friends, her boyfriend, now fiancé moved with her. It all worked out in the end, but she was ready to make those kinds of tough decisions.


[00:15:02] MB: You have to have the courage to quit. I feel like that’s the same. Because it takes real courage to like – especially Samantha to like, be in a solid relationship and know that that might end to have these friendships that you have had probably forever and know that those might shift based on your decision you’re making and still move forward with that, with all of this, that’s crazy, awesome. But I mean, not everyone has that courage to like, “Oh, I’ve been with this guy or this girl for so long and we have a dog together in a house together. It’s just easier to stay in this super unhealthy, unhappy relationship than it is to break up and split our stuff up and like move.” Or like, “Oh, I don’t know how to be alone. I’d rather just stay in this unhealthy.” You know what I mean?


[00:15:48] KC: Well, let’s be honest.


[00:15:48] MB: You need a full-blown courage to quit things.


[00:15:51] KC: It does. Let’s be honest, the fear of the unknown is way stronger than the fear of what you have already in your hand. So, I think that quitting, it really means taking responsibility for your own happiness, because I know in my personal life, and I’m not going to call people out here. I know a lot of people who are staying in very, very unhappy situations, whether that’s their job, or their relationship, or their friends, or whatever. And it’s because they don’t have to take responsibility that way. They can sit in their unhappiness, and they can blame it all on their spouse, or their work, or their toxic best friend, or whatever they are. They’re using as their crutch. They’re blaming it on that person. They’re not having to take responsibility where if you leave that relationship, or you leave that job, or you leave that friend group, suddenly, you’re responsible for your happiness, you’re responsible for your life and where it takes you. And that’s scary. And it’s easier not to. I mean, it just is.


[00:16:48] MB: Yeah, so first of all, you have to have the courage to look at whatever that is in the face and still move forward. Because it’s like the excuse factory pops up. When you like, bring it up, you’re like, “Oh, well, you complain about your job a lot.” “Well, yeah, they make me work on my day off.” “But why don’t you just quit?” “Oh, well, why should I quit? I’ve been there and doing well. Now. You’re just making excuses for why you’re still at your job that you’ve clearly hate.” And they’re clearly like, using you. And you know what I mean? It’s like, well, if you don’t like it so much, then quit. Well, I can’t quit because of this, this and this. Okay, well, still sounds like you should quit. You know what I mean? It looks like it’s so easy, because it’s not their personal problem. But sometimes, it’s that simple. If you’re constantly complaining about the boyfriend, the job, whatever it is, then that’s that mere that you can’t avoid and it’s just like, well, how many excuses are you going to make until you’re finally like, “Maybe that’s the problem.”


[00:17:41] KC: Right. Yeah. But if you have this outside influence, that is not allowing you to be your best self, isn’t that easier to use that excuse than actually having to show up as your best self, because that’s hard. Showing up as your best self is hard work. So yeah, I know a lot of people just like that. And in my life, in my personal experience, the times that I’ve made difficult decisions to quit, whether it was a career or my marriage. The quitting actually opened up space for something better for me to come along. If I had not been ready to quit and walk away from those circumstances, I wouldn’t be where I am today, and I’m happy where I am. I mean, I’m incredibly blessed where I am. That would never have happened if I had stayed where I was, because there was no space for something better to come in. I needed to let go of what I had to allow myself even to imagine what was better and what I wanted and what was out there for me.


[00:18:36] MB: Yeah, that’s the thing. Step one, have courage. And step two, be optimistic that whatever is in front of you is far better than what you’re leaving behind. Just the optimistic mind. Did you have that optimistic mindset going out of say, like your marriage, that things would work out better on the other side? You’re super depressed and sad, and in that space, where it’s like, you can’t let go of what you need to let go to see the optimism because –


[00:19:00] KC: that’s my biggest thing. I knew almost right away that that marriage wasn’t right for me. I knew it so early, and I stayed for a decade. I stayed because of the kids. I stayed because of my idea in my head, that I was never going to get divorced, that I was going to stick it out, that marriage means something to me. The commitment meant something to me. Again, I was raised by my dad who has been divorced quite a few times. So, I thought I was going to –


[00:19:26] MB: You always want to be like, “I’m not going to be like my mom or my dad.”


[00:19:30] KC: Exactly.


[00:19:31] MB: I’m going to be like commitment, Mrs. Commitment.


[00:19:35] KC: Exactly. And so, I knew right away that this was not the good situation for me. I mean, this is terrible to say, but I was like, I cried on my wedding day because I knew I was making a mistake. But I did it anyway. I stayed for a decade and mostly I stayed because I did tell people, “Hey, you know what, I’m not happy. I think I want to leave.” And they would tell me, “Oh, you can’t make it on your own. What are you going to do with these little kids? No one going to be interested in being with you when you have four small children or whatever.” I heard all of that.


[00:20:07] MB: Did you hear, would anybody ever bring up like what that would do to the kids if you guys split up?


[00:20:10] KC: Yes.


[00:20:10] MB: It’s like instead of you thinking of your happiness or like, but what about your kids’ happiness? I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry, for a millisecond, I was thinking of my own happiness. Let’s talk about that.” Because I come from a – not to interrupt your story. But I come from a marriage that literally stayed together for like 25 years too long. And they stay together for the kids and it was super, super dysfunctional. So, it’s like, I get that. So, to stay together for the kids or to think about the kids’ happiness, that doesn’t always work out.


[00:20:37] KC: No. And to be honest with you, the only reason that I finally got the courage to leave was because – and I wasn’t in an abusive relationship. I wasn’t in a relationship where we were being unfaithful. There was none of that. That was not the reason. It just, I could not be the person I wanted to be. I could not be the best version of myself in that relationship. Our value systems were too different. What we wanted out of life was too different. And I was thinking big, and there was not room for that kind of thought process.


[00:21:05] MB: Someone we need to conform.


[00:21:06] KC: And it was me, I was conforming, I was dimming my sparkle, and I’ve just had kind of given up. I lost who I was. I lost my identity completely. And if you see pictures of me during that time, it I don’t even look like the same person. But the reason I got the courage to actually finally leave was because I did see the effect it was having on the kids good.


[00:21:28] MB: Goods. Kids are very intuitive and they see that.


[00:21:30] KC: And I remember like, early on, when the kids were small, if he and I would have an argument, they would react. They would come and hug me or cry and say, “No, don’t fight, whatever.” And then it got to the point where we would have an argument, and they didn’t even look up from the TV. So, they were so desensitized to us arguing that that was their normal, and that shook me. And the minute I realized that, I was like, I don’t want them to grow up thinking that this kind of communication is what’s normal and healthy. Because that’s not the value system I want to pass on to my kids. We are so different, and we cannot seem to get along. And that’s creating a toxic environment for my children. Then the decision became very easy for me. No matter how little I had in my bank account, or where I was going to live or whatever, I knew immediately that now I needed to go. It wasn’t – 


[00:22:17] MB: I don’t want to be like FOMO. But I really wish that my parents had that, like one of my parents had that mindset because I kid you not, they like spent way too long together for all the time. I come from an abusive household. And so, it’s really nice to hear somebody go, “Oh, no, this is not what I want my kids to see and I have the courage to put my foot down and stop it before it becomes routine.”


[00:22:44] KC: I grew up in a house where nobody raised their voices at each other. And where if we had our feelings hurt by someone else in the family, or we were upset, we would write each other a letter, slide it into your bedroom door, like that was our communication system and it was healthier. So, I knew that I wanted my kids to feel that their home was a safe sanctuary for them and it wasn’t at that time. So, I made that difficult decision to leave. Everybody told me I was making mistake, nobody supported that decision. Everybody was not telling me to try again, give it another chance, and I knew what my decision was the correct decision. So, making that decision against everyone’s advice, and with no support, and then having a turnout to be okay, and having me be able to support my kids on my own and create this life for them that they’re super people. I mean, they’re so emotionally healthy –


[00:23:33] MB: And they are all products of how we grew up. So, if that’s where you really need to pay the most attention to what their environment is like, and how they’re learning to communicate and all that. 


[00:23:43] KC: Yeah. And that was the biggest –


[00:23:43] MB: Now, they evolved into larger children, smaller adults. They now go out and find healthy relationships and communicate well, and then teach their children. You know what I mean? It’s like the thing. I picked up a lot of dysfunctional stuff for my parents that Dan had to like, you know, exorcist style – my husband had to, like really work. I mean, here’s the thing is like, yes, know when to quit, but I like to think of myself, like a lot of people think of like a broken person that it’s like, it does take a very patient person to be with me. And I really, really appreciate what my husband, because he’s met my mom and he’s seen what I grew up with. And he knows stories and so he knows that I’m not just like, such like black and white person that some things require some patience. We’re all very complicated individuals.


[00:24:35] KC: We are.


[00:24:35] MB: We are. I am not in an abusive relationship. I have never abused him. It’s never a point where like, anyone was like, “Oh, this is a toxic relationship.”


[00:24:43] KC: But between abusive relationship and healthy communication, there’s a lot of gray area, and I know –


[00:24:51] MB: There’s a really ugly thing and he had to work out some ugly stuff from me so that I didn’t pass it down to our kids, because I had no idea that was even doing a lot of the stuff that he said I was doing, because that’s just how I grew up. And that’s just how my parents spoke. So, I’m like, “Well, I don’t know any better.”


[00:25:09] KC: You have to unlearn a lot. I mean, I learned that with Alex, his first marriage was very toxic, both sides. I mean, he was very toxic when he was in that marriage. And from what I’ve heard, his partner was as well.


[00:25:21] MB: It brings out the worst and people sometimes.


[00:25:24] KC: Yes. And so, when we would be first together, if we would have a disagreement, he would go into nuclear war right away. I mean, there was no –


[00:25:35] MB: You know what? I don’t want to like side, but I do remember being in the car next to you, and your response to those was to, and correct me if I’m wrong, but be very calm, and be very patient and be very – not loving in like a mocking way. But I’m learning you didn’t grow up in a household where people yelled, but you also know that you had the intelligence to know that didn’t help anything. And so, that was really a big wake up call for me too. I was like, “Wow, okay, yelling doesn’t solve problems. Okay.” I actually adapted how you handle those situations in my own relationship, because it’s like, I immediately went to yelling, because that’s what my parents did.


[00:26:15] KC: I mean, it took us years where I would try to deescalate his immediately angry response. And if that didn’t work, I would literally tell him, “This conversation isn’t productive, so I’m going to sign off, but I love you.”


[00:26:26] MB: You’re like a samurai. I don’t know how to do it.


[00:26:30] KC: I’m not hanging up on you. I love you. You have to say that. You have to have boundaries and you have to say, “I love you very much. I’m not hanging up on you. But I’ve realized this conversation isn’t going anywhere. So, I’m signing off, we will talk when you’re calmer.”


[00:26:42] MB: It will make the person more angry, because this happened the other day with me and Dan said what you just said, but you get off the phone as the angry person and you go, “Maybe I was being irrational.” And it does calm the person down and it stops any more negativity or toxicity from there, on their end or your end. Because you’re not going to fight. So, what’s the point? 


[00:27:04] KC: Well, I had to literally teach him that it was him and I versus the problem we were having. It’s not him versus me. So, sometimes when he gets heated still to this day, I will look at him and say, “Same team, we’re on the same team.” That’s, that’s like our signal and then he calms down and he realizes, “Okay, he’s not mad at me, he’s upset about this problem that we’re having. So, let’s be productive. and problem solve. Yelling is not productive.”


[00:27:31] MB: Any relationship therapist, like I’ve heard that a lot, where it’s like, in order to come back together, you have to realize it’s you and that person versus the problem, not you versus that person. I’ve heard it referred to like you go into, like caveman brain where like, all the intelligent evolved parts of you, just like leave the brain when you’re in an argument with someone and you just go into like caveman mode, and you’re not even thinking of the fact that it’s not the person, it’s the problem. It’s hard to do. It’s a hard to do thing. And it’s still on the topic of you don’t know when and when not to quit, I still think it’s a gut thing. Because like I said, as I am, I will admit a very complicated individual. I am very happy that in moments where I have gone through some crazy stuff that my husband did not quit on me because it does require someone to not never give up, but have like a stick with it mentality and work through it. 


Because eventually, when I’m like on a level minded, when all of that is gone, I’m sure you and Alex have a much better communication style now. It’s not always perfect. I’m not always –


[00:28:37] KC: Of course.


[00:28:38] MB: Those demons still show up sometimes. But I have learned a lot and evolved a lot and I don’t want to blame my childhood. But I feel like it’s a lot of because of what I watched my parents do. 


[00:28:50] KC: Of course, it’s normal.


[00:28:52] MB: If one of them had maybe quit the relationship, the very clearly dysfunctional relationship that they were in much sooner, maybe I wouldn’t have come with such a large bag of baggage. But I just feel like sticking with it, but the sheer fact that you think it like keeps the family unit together and teaches your kids a family unit, when it’s clear, it’s just not working, is never good.


[00:29:14] KC: No, it’s not. I think there are ways to tell if you should stick it out or if you shouldn’t stick it out. You really need to, if you’re on the side of this, where you’re the person who’s being yelled at, not the person who’s doing the yelling, you really have to consider if the person’s – if their intentions are good. If they’re a good person and they’re trying. It’s taking them some time to get to the place that you already are because maybe you came to the situation with a lot more privileges than they did, maybe not having – had that environment growing up or not having been in a toxic relationship right before that one or whatever it is. Maybe they’re not as evolved as that to that point as you are yet. But they’re trying. That’s what you want to see and that’s what’s worth sticking it out and putting the effort. Go to counseling or read books that help them. If they’re willing to make an effort, that’s a wonderful sign. It’s when the person tells you that you’re the one who’s crazy, they didn’t do anything wrong, you need to change, not them. Those kinds of things that you’re hearing are probably signs that you’re not going to be able to “fix it” or solve it.


[00:30:24] MB: You knew going into your marriage, that it wasn’t – it was a gut thing for you. But if you’re trying to work on something, and the person is like, “Oh, this is all you and I’m not meeting you in the middle”, then that should be a gut thing, too. That’s another gut thing where you’re like, “How much do I have to give?” It should never be so one sided.


[00:30:41] KC: Yeah. And there were things that I wanted for my life. I was much younger than my first husband, just that I’m much younger than my current. There were things that I wanted for my life and I had these big dreams, and I had this idea of what my best version of me would be. And there was no support from my ex on those things. He didn’t want the same things I did. I was actually really kind of disparaged for wanting those things. Because he was saying, “Well, our life now is fine. This is good enough for me. Why isn’t it good enough for you?” Just to be honest, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If he’s fine in that space, then for me to push him outside of his comfort zone and try to make him into something he doesn’t want to be, that’s not fair, either. That’s abusive on my part.


So, he deserved somebody who would meet him where he was at and love him for who he was and it just wasn’t me. It couldn’t be me. Because what I wanted was something much bigger than that and I had all these big goals. And he was uncomfortable in the place that I wanted to be. He would have been uncomfortable in the environment that I wanted to end up. It wasn’t his lifestyle, it wasn’t what he wanted. I had all this hustle, I had all these goals, I wanted to be entrepreneurial, I want to do this. He wasn’t on board for any of that. He didn’t understand it even. He was like, “Why would you want that when everything we have now is perfectly fine. We have a perfectly fine house in the suburbs, and we’re camping on the weekends. And what’s wrong with that?” There’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s just not what I wanted. 


[00:32:06] MB: There are so many, I mean, people, yes, but so many women out there that can like full blown relate to that to like, the most degree, where they’re the dimming their sparkle, because they’re trying to fit this mold of the person that they ended up with, that they thought they love, that they still love. But I mean, if the person is meant for you, as long as it’s legal and not toxic for the relationship, you can want to just wake up one morning and become a professional poker dancer. And that person should support your goals and your journey, that you’re not in possession of anyone, you’re supposed to bring the best version of that person out and the best version of yourself out, and you’re supposed to work with each other to bring the best version of each other out. And whatever that person’s goals aspirations are, you’re supposed to just support that person, as long as it’s not hurting your relationship, or physically hurting people are illegal or whatever that is. We’re like, “Oh, I want to be a serial killer.” No, not everything needs to be supported, but like they have goals and it scares you, then you need to, like look in the mirror and go, “I need to not hold them back from that.” – that they have for their life.


[00:33:16] KC: I think my goals, I mean, he was hitting the ceiling of what his capability level was, and my goals were so much bigger than that. And he had a very conservative idea of roles in marriage and that the husband should provide and the wife should just be a support system. So, if I was to just go full bore towards what I wanted, and push for my goals and surpass where he was, there would have been so much resentment. I mean, he was already telling me, “Why are you talking about that? You’re never going to be able to do that. That’s ridiculous. Nobody actually does that.” I was like, “No, I mean, I wanted a partner who tried to bring out the best to me instead of was pushing me down.”


So, when I left, that was my biggest quit of my life. When I left that marriage, and I was out on my own terrified, no money in the bank, no place to go, terrified, terrified. The fact that I was able to thrive I mean, and make a lot of things happen and give my kids a great life on my own –


[00:34:10] MB: That’s like your big flex.


[00:34:10] KC: It built so much confidence in me.


[00:34:13] MB: Right. You can you can literally do anything at that point. There’s like this superhero cape that you get when you finally make that decision, and you fly off the building, and you don’t know how it’s going to go, but it actually works out okay. And, oh, my gosh, better than you expected. It’s like literally your biggest flex. Because you’re like, “Yeah, you should try it.” You should try quitting. The thing you’re miserable at because like, life on the other side is so much better.


[00:34:37] KC: Just leaving that taught me, one, to trust my own judgment. I knew what was best for me. I knew I was making the right decision no matter what anyone else had. And to trust myself that I could handle the most difficult situations, because when other things came up later that were scary or difficult, I would say I survived that and nobody thought I could do it. I could totally survive this. I mean, the confidence that that gave me, just like if you’re trying to leave a work environment that’s really bad for you, maybe you have a side business that’s really doing well, and you want to leave and make that your full-time thing. But you’re afraid because you’re giving up your benefits, your health insurance, your salary that set in stone for something that’s a big what if, right? That is very scary.


But at some point, if you do have a side business that’s thriving, you have to make that decision in order for that business to get to its full potential, because you’ll never be able to give it the attention that it wants. So, it’s a really scary thing. But say you do, say you quit your job, you put all your energy of the same hours into the side business and it skyrockets, what an incredible sense of accomplishment and confidence that I did this, I can do this on my own, without a safety net, without anything. That’s really life changing, that kind of confidence. 


[00:35:49] MB: I feel like all success stories like entrepreneurial, you know, come from – there’s no person that’s like, “Oh, I was a lawyer. But I also started this business. And I never really quit being a lawyer and this other business did really well. And I kind of didn’t know.” They like full blown quit one thing to put all in and one other thing. And it’s sometimes like you being unhappy in that another thing is just your heart telling you that it’s time to go. Like it’s just time to make that leap and sometimes people might think you’re crazy, but that’s okay. There’s nothing different from that other person that did it and succeeded, other than the fact that they made that decision to do it.


[00:36:25] KC: And there are so many times where people in my life and myself included, have asked the question of what if I had made that decision sooner? Think of what I could have done then.


[00:36:36] MB: Of course. You’re always thinking about like, what if I’d done this sooner? I couldn’t be here. I could be doing – you know what I mean?


[00:36:40] KC: Right. Why did I spend so long worrying about it and stressing over it and procrastinating doing it?


[00:36:47] MB: It’s always that ugly beginning that we always fear, right?


[00:36:51] KC: Because it’s scary.


[00:36:51] MB: It’s scary going into the world of being single after being in a relationship for so long, or going into the world without a job after being and thinking you’re going to do this one thing for so long. It’s like, super scary. But you got to take that leap, you got to have the courage, and then you got to be optimistic.


[00:37:10] KC: Yeah, I mean, I can think of a lot of women who have – they’ve had the same best friend forever and they’ve been through a lot with that person. But now their lives just aren’t lining up, and they’re not in the same space anymore. Maybe they’re growing into different directions, or that friend has become resentful of success or judgmental, or there’s just issues now, where that friendship you’ve outgrown it. It doesn’t serve you anymore. You spend the same time with that person, but you’re not getting the same enjoyment out of it. And I think in order for us to say yes to the things that are meant for us, sometimes we have to say no to the things that are not and that’s a hard thing to do.


But if you’re having these kinds of relationships, where you are spending time with someone out of history, because of the history, and not because you’re enjoying the time that you’re spending with that person, you really need to kind of examine, maybe you just have to have a difficult talk, and you can work through it. And it’s just there’s a lot that you guys have left unsaid and it can be fixed. But sometimes you guys have just grown in two separate directions. And it’s time to move on from that friendship, and find friends that are better suited to your lifestyle. Now, I know I had this issue, I had my kids really young, all my friends were not having kids at that time. They were in school or starting jobs, or dating and, and I was married with kids. So, we had nothing in common anymore. It was very hard for us to have anything to talk about.


[00:38:33] MB: Or you weren’t as freely available anymore. Like your lifestyles were completely different.


[00:38:38] KC: Yeah. We were growing on two completely separate paths. So, a lot of my friends I stopped talking to for quite some time and then we came back together later, and now, I talk to them again, because we’re on the same path.


[00:38:51] MB: You’ve got to talk about.


[00:38:53] KC: Yes.


[00:38:54] MB: I would have friends were like, I didn’t have kids very young. But I was within my first of the kids or my friends to have kids and I would like talk about things and they’d look at me like they had no clue what to say about it. Like, “Oh, you don’t even get spit up on this morning.” Okay. Never mind. Like you, almost like it becomes your identity and you need to be with people who like you identify with. You’re going to try. I have to talk to someone about this spit up, and you look at me, like you’re grossed out and you have no clue what I’m talking about. Or like, I’ll complain about not sleeping, and they’re like, I just woke up and it’s 11.


[00:39:27] KC: Yeah, I was out last night until 3 AM. So, I know I didn’t sleep either. And you’re like –


[00:39:30] MB: You need to evolve with your life and sometimes those people did not evolve in the same timeframe you did. And you just need to like, “I’ll catch you later. You let me know when we can get up on and then we’ll talk again.”


[00:39:41] KC: Well, I know, like Sam has shared with me that, she’s super ambitious and driven, and she’s getting her master’s. She’s doing all these things. She’s been working through the whole time she’s been in college. She’s got all this stuff going on. And she sometimes has friends that she’s had since like, third, fourth, fifth grade, that they’re not on the same trajectory. And they’re kind of stuck in that place of, after high school, just kind of existing trying to figure out what you want to do.


[00:40:08] MB: Haven’t moved out of the same place, doing the same things.


[00:40:11] KC: And they have a hard time relating. And she has had that conversation with me like, “Mom, I mean, I care for this person. We have so much history, but there’s just nothing else for us to talk about.” I mean, they just want to go out and party and I have responsibilities. And I’ve had to tell her, there are certain times in our life where we really need a good strong support system of girlfriends. And those times are when we’re starting our career, we need a lot of networking, we need people who can understand what we’re going through. When we have young kids, we need other mom friends,


[00:40:40] MB: When you’re about to get married. I mean, literally, like bridesmaids, like you have a whole squad of people that are like in your circle giving you – there are some times when you need girlfriends.


[00:40:51] KC: Yeah. And then when you’re older, and kids are growing and leaving the house, that’s a huge transition period. And if you don’t have any friends who are going through the same thing, it can be really lonely and nobody understands what you’re dealing with. A lot of women go through a really hard time when their kids leave the house. I mean, it’s a really, it’s a part time when marriages fall apart when women go through depression, because usually you’ve got hormone changes going on at the same time that your kids are leaving the house is a lot to happen at once. So, if you don’t have a good support system of friends that you can talk to who are in the same boat as you, it’s lonely. So, it’s okay.


[00:41:26] MB: It’s not even our fault. I promised and gave the Girl Scout salute that I was not going to be that mom that like talked about –


[00:41:36] KC: I remember. I remember.


[00:41:36] MB: – picture of my kids all the time. But it’s like, it’s like 18 of the 24 hours in a day for 18 plus, not even 18 years. I’m still bugging my Dad. I’m 35. I bugged him this morning. So, it’s not even our fault. We don’t do anything else. It’s like putting someone in the wild and then seeing them in 18 years and wondering why they’re eating raw animals. It’s like, that’s all I know. I don’t know anything else. So yeah, like sorry guys, when you become parents, it’s just all you do. 


[00:42:04] KC: Yeah. Or if you have a super high-powered job, you work 60, 70 hours a week or something, and the person doesn’t want to talk about work –


[00:42:12] MB: That’s why we talked about in a previous episode, how you need to like, find your thing earlier in life. Because if you wait till everybody leaves a mess to find your identity, it’s going to be slipping scary.


[00:42:24] KC: Well, and quitting can also mean, it can be not even all this emotional, like heavy stuff that we’re talking about. Maybe you’ve had a hobby that you’ve had for years and years and it’s just something you’ve you enjoyed at the time, and you have like crafting or sewing or knitting or painting, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter and you really enjoyed it. And it got you through a tough time, it was something that what you were passionate about, but you’ve lost interest. You have other interests now, and it can be one of those things where it’s hard to let go of it because it’s been a little bit of a security blanket for you and a part of your identity. But it’s okay to quit things just because you liked something before, it doesn’t mean that you still have to like it.


[00:43:06] MB: It was a personal thing, for me not too long ago. And it’s not like you can’t go back to the thing. It’s just like, allow yourself to be free to evolve in life and like sometimes things people don’t serve you in that season you’re in and be okay with that and be honest with it. It’s like that saying some people and you can use anything from knitting to a person. Some people are here for a season. Some people are here for a reason. You know what I mean? You just got to know what those things are, and be in tune and be intuitive.


[00:43:37] KC: Maybe you mentioned once to friends and family that like frogs are my favorite animal. And now your whole house frog themed, because people keep buying you gifts with frogs on it.


[00:43:48] MB: My dad’s ex-girlfriend had the same story where she said she liked a birdhouse and she’s like, “Yeah, I said that once, and now I have 20 birdhouses.”


[00:43:55] KC: Yeah, so maybe you have stuffed frogs, enamel frogs, powdery frogs, cookie things to shape like frogs. It’s okay to tell people. I’ve moved on from the frogs. Donate the stuff. You can move on to cow print or flamingos or whatever.


[00:44:17] MB: You don’t have to let your job of other people’s expectations, whatever that is, like identify you and mold you and not let you like break free of that. Courage, you got to have courage. You got to be okay with the backlash you’re going to get. By the way, most people don’t really care. When you make this big life shift of no longer sewing and now you want to try piano, people aren’t going to be like. You have a higher expectation for yourself, than people actually have of you, because that’s just how – we’re all just such, believe it or not, we’re very narcissistic people. We all just think the world is just thinking of us 24/7 and what we’re doing, and what we’re projecting. Maybe, but probably not.


So, have the courage to try something new because chances are you people are going to be encouraging if they’re the right people, and they’re probably not really paying attention so hard as you think. People think relationships really long, because they think people are going to judge them. It’s like the right people shouldn’t judge you and most people aren’t even thinking about your relationship.


[00:45:17] KC: Exactly.


[00:45:19] MB: They’ll forget about it in five minutes. So, just quit because you’re super unhappy.


[00:45:24] KC: I think this topic is so important particularly for our generation, because we were raised by that more conservative, never give up, perseverance, don’t be a quitter mindset of our parents. I promise you, I probably know so many people, so many lawyers who the first semester of law school, they knew it wasn’t for them. But they didn’t quit because they got into law school. What’s wrong with you? Now you have all the student debt, you have to finish or medical school probably knew right away. This isn’t what I wanted to do. But now they’re doctors and that’s what they’re doing.


I’m so thankful that we have kind of a little bit changed this mindset for the newer generation. Because if you got into an Ivy League school, I have a friend whose daughter got into MIT, she went the first year, she knew right away, it wasn’t for her. But her parents were saying, “Are you crazy? That’s MIT. Do you know many people applied and you got in? I mean, that’s one of the best schools in the country, why would you quit?” She did. She quit. She quit after the first year, she transferred, I think she transferred to Duke, which is still a really good school much happier. It’s okay to make a course correction. The earlier you do it, the less you’re going to lose, the less time, the less expectations.


[00:46:38] MB: What advise you have for anybody that has like, it’s not in their religion, like they live in a very strict household where like, that’s just how they’re maybe not the religion or like – my next-door neighbor came from a Japanese household, and like, there was things that she was expected to do, and whenever she wanted to try something new, she got a lot of backlash, or I feel like there could be also things that are you’re raised a certain way, and it’s not in your control. And so what do you do for things when it’s just like, “Oh, I’d love to quit.” But I don’t have that option. I have to see this through because it’s expected of me to do this. Those are the people that I’m like, “Yes, it can be generational”, but I feel like –


[00:47:22] KC: It’s also cultural, for sure.


[00:47:25] MB: It’s cultural. For the culture, quitting things is not even taught. You don’t even bring it up. Don’t even think about it. And if you don’t want to do those things, but they’re being like, “You have to do this, because you’re going to be a doctor, and this is what you’re going to do.” Like my dad expects me to do this. So, I have to do this. It doesn’t make me happy, but I am expected to do this.


[00:47:47] KC: I know a lot of people who have family businesses, and they are expecting their children. One of their children to take over this family business and sometimes it works out great. But oftentimes, it doesn’t. If you’ve never even considered asking the child that you’re expecting that of, whether they have an interest in that business or want to do it, this is the time to have that conversation, because they could have a dream that they’ve had their whole life, and they love you so much that they don’t want to disappoint you by telling you that.


So, this is a really good conversation that you can have. And it’s hard, I’m a real big proponent on not putting expectations on our children. I think you have to step back and let them turn into who they’re going to turn into and all you’re supposed to do is cheerlead and support. So, that’s a sticky subject for me, but I think there are people who think it’s too late. They’re too old, too much time has gone by. This is a great idea, but they could never execute it. I think there’s probably a lot of listeners who feel that way. But I don’t think it’s ever you know, too late to be your authentic self, to be the best version of yourself that you can be and do the thing that you’ve always dreamed of doing. Maybe you feel silly, and you don’t need to make an announcement to the world. You don’t have to, if you don’t want to.


[00:49:00] MB: Oh, yeah. I think the best thing to do is like go silent for six months and like work on yourself and not tell anyone.


[00:49:06] KC: Yeah. The caterpillars go into cocoon, right?


[00:49:08] MB: Don’t have that expectation to put on yourself, because what, maybe you try it, and you’re like, “Oh, wait, no. I don’t like that.” But then now you have this new expectation that you have to fulfill this new thing that you told people to do. Literally, like go silent on it. I would strongly suggest to. Unless you feel like that’ll hold you more accountable or you’re really, really proud of it and you want to tell the world like all for that too. But if you really, you’re like, I don’t really know if I want to and that’s what’s holding you back. Oh, okay. Just do it. But don’t tell anyone because you don’t owe that to anybody. You just do it and shock people.


[00:49:42] KC: Yeah, do it. Try it out, see how it feels. And if you’re comfortable there and if you feel like it is the right path for you, then share it with people. You don’t have to share it –


[00:49:52] MB: You’re going to inspire so many people to do the same. That’s the thing, I hear what people will think. By the way it’s going to inspire – people are going to want to be that. We talked about last week. I want to be that woman eating alone in the restaurant, be fine fine with it. Because like, she’s fine with it. And I’m so insecure about everything and what people think that it cripples me.


[00:50:10] KC: Yeah. So, don’t say anything, just go in your caterpillar cocoon and emerge as the bad bitch butterfly that you know you are.


[00:50:19] MB: Fuck everyone and be like, “Wait, I don’t have to put it on my Instagram that I’m going to go do this thing.” I did it and I didn’t have to tell anyone. And by the way, I’m happy. People think they have to tell everybody all their details all the time, because social media is just there. It’s like, no, you don’t have to tell anybody anything.


[00:50:36] KC: No. We have full control over what we share and what we don’t. So, if you want to quit something, or you want to start something, I fully support you. I encourage you. I believe you can do it, just try it. You don’t have to make a big announcement. And there are some things –


[00:50:50] MB: They had babies during the pandemic and no one knew they were pregnant. They also didn’t feel this obligation to make this big announcement that they were pregnant, either. They just went and live their life because social media is silly. It is a big scheme of life, it is, because you don’t have to announce every single thing you do all the time. You can just go live life and be happy.


[00:51:10] KC: So, I guarantee that almost every one of the listeners that we have has something that they’ve always wanted to do or try or something that they have been doing that they really want to give up. And hopefully, this helps them to be less scared to do that. You really need to kind of search your heart about what is it in your life that is keeping you from being the best version of yourself or the version of yourself that you want to be, not what society tells you that you need to be.


[00:51:37] MB: Is it for a season? Or is it like, is that just what it’s going to be? Because like we talked about, Sam made some really hard choices, and she went through a really tough season. But now she’s on the other side and like happy she made that leap. Sometimes you know that it’s not going to always be, but you have to just be ready for that season. But if it’s like a lifelong thing where you’re just legit unhappy, and it’s not like a season thing, like know when to quit. 


[00:52:03] KC: Yeah. And don’t feel like you need to apologize for it. It’s okay to say, “I quit because I wanted to quit.” You don’t need to give anybody else any reasons. Your reasons are your own, and they can be private. And you don’t even need to tell anybody that you quit. But if there are people that you have to let know, it’s okay to say that you just did it because you wanted to. That should be enough for anyone.


[00:52:21] MB: If you perform for people to put their own happiness first nowadays, and if you do you’re, like super selfish for thinking that. Why did you leave your marriage? Oh, well, I just realized I was really unhappy. But you have like kids in the house that. I know, but I put my happiness first.


[00:52:34] KC: Yeah, maybe you’ve been super tied up in something like diet culture, which is not making you feel like a good version of yourself. And you’ve been on a diet since you were 13 and you’re sick of fucking lean cuisines.


[00:52:45] MB: With that unhealthy toxic, whatever it is.


[00:52:47] KC: Quit it and just embrace your body. As long as you are – your doctor says that you’re healthy and you don’t have like restrictions or anything. Embrace your body for what it is and let yourself love it at the place that it is right now. Quit the dieting, if it’s causing you unhappiness, or maybe it’s the opposite and you’ve always wanted to try something like CrossFit. But everyone tells you, “You’re too old. You’re not fit, you’re not strong enough. Look, those people are super muscular, and you’re not.” Don’t listen to any of that BS. Go do what you want to do. At least take the first steps, make appointments, talk to people, ask someone, “Hey, I want to start this, but I’m way lower than beginner. What do I do?”


[00:53:25] MB: I wanted to start weightlifting. I had never, ever, ever lifted a weightlifting bar in my life. But I knew I always wanted to do it. And I was frustrated that I had this big vision. And I was thinking of hiring a trainer and that’s what most people would do. I just found somebody at the gym that I meshed well with and she taught me a bunch of things. But I had to like let go of that idea that I had to go into something being an expert in order to even be worthy of trying it. It’s like, because I was worried of what other people would think of me or I would mess it up. It’s like, “Okay, well, if that’s really hindering you, well, then there’s professionals. I could hire a trainer and that person could help me through the beginning, ugly part.” But you just have to like be willing to like let go of the fear. 


[00:54:08] KC: Be willing to look silly for a little bit and that’s okay. That’s the worst thing that can happen. But this idea that I’m not whatever enough for this thing that I want to do, I’m not strong enough, I’m not fit enough, I’m not young enough, I’m not whatever. Just let go of that. Let it go.


[00:54:27] MB: And by the way, that’s just you giving yourself like excuses. That’s just that voice that’s been hindering you for years, keeping you from doing that thing. That’s becoming louder than your willingness to try. We all know, yet we still act in a certain way. Right?


[00:54:44] KC: Yeah.


[00:54:44] MB: Always easier said than done.


[00:54:46] KC: Absolutely. This is a scary topic. The word quitting has such an emotional attachment to it, and it’s mostly negative. But I think hopefully our conversation today might have changed that narrative for a few people. Because –


[00:54:58] MB: I think it’s reworded now. I think we’re embracing our authentic selves, you kept saying that and it’s like, that in itself is quitting a lot of things. It’s quitting the idea of what you thought you were, what society thought you were, what your future, you thought your future was. There is quitting involved in embracing your authentic self. And I feel more than ever, that we are doing really well at pushing that as a society. So, I think subconsciously, that idea of quitting toxic things will come along with it. But you’re right, we need to like, embrace this idea of healthy quitting more, because then I feel they will live their life freely more.


[00:55:36] KC: We have to normalize changing our minds. I mean, I’ve changed my mind on so many things. Because I’ve gotten new information, or I’ve learned or have been more educated, or I’ve grown as a person. Whatever the reasons, we need to normalize changing our minds about stuff and that can be changing our minds about really big stuff. So, it’s okay and maybe you had dreams when you were younger, and you’ve held on to that dream, but you realize that dream isn’t even something you want anymore. It’s okay to also just let go of a dream that you had. You’re not giving up on yourself. You’re giving yourself space for something new to come in, for something even better to come in.


[00:56:08] MB: You’re allowing room for that better thing to come along, because you’re not so – the blinders aren’t on.


[00:56:16] KC: Exactly. So, wow, this was a big topic. We had a lot to say.


[00:56:22] MB: I really think we’re talking about this again, forever. It’s happy and it’s also optimistically good because it encourages us to think differently, and to be –


[00:56:29] KC: Absolutely.


[00:56:31] MB: Anything that revolves around the idea of just being happy, the core is just to be happy, happy, happy, happy. I’m all for it.


[00:56:38] KC: Yeah. And I mean –


[00:56:38] MB: There are a lot of things before our happiness nowadays.


[00:56:41] KC:  I remember, I think it was one of the Sex in the City movies, where Samantha asked the other girl, she’s like, “Are you guys just happy all the time?” And they were like, “Well, not all day, every day. But yeah, in general, we’re just happy.” And it blew her mind because she was in this relationship that wasn’t making her happy and she was trying. I don’t know if you remember this, but he had like, stayed with her through cancer or something. So, she felt like she had to stay even though she was no longer happy. So, she was just normalizing being unhappy and then when she asked her girlfriends, and they were like, “Yeah, we’re generally happy.” It just blew her mind.


So, happiness is a choice that we make, and we make it every day. And if you are not making that choice for yourself, honey, you’re the only person who can choose it. Nobody else can make you happy. You have to do this for yourself. This is the number one thing in your life, it’s what you’re on this earth to do, is to just feed your own soul and make yourself happy.


[00:57:33] MB: So many things. The older we get, the more things get shoved in front of happiness. When you’re a kid, it’s basically wake up and like, find happiness, like a toy, cookie. But then as you get older, and you have bills and jobs and kids and responsibilities, it’s like, “It’s time for happiness.”


[00:57:53] KC: Well, yeah, and we’re not living in a world where all day we have unmitigated joy. I mean, unless you unless your job is to –


[00:58:02] MB: – your day, if you’re not, then there’s the wakeup call. It’s not being happy all the time, but it’s finding the happy moments in your day.


[00:58:09] KC: Right, you should be generally positive throughout the day and feeling good. I mean, none of us like just sit in a ball pit all day, or something like ride jet skis all day, I wish. 


[00:58:19] MB: If you’re evolving into like, a very angry person –


[00:58:24] KC: Resentment, negative.


[00:58:25] MB: – version of yourself, there’s always something in your life, whether it’s your job, your relationship, something that is the root of that, or maybe it’s triggering you. But really, it’s something else. You got to like, just do some soul searching and find what it is and quit that because like, it’s evolving you into being a not so joyful person. And that’s the whole point of living is to generally be joyful, and enjoy your time on this planet and to remind yourself that tomorrow is not promised and that you need to just find joy within the day you have because it’s not all going to be like that all the time. But you should find moments to smile.


[00:59:01] KC: Yeah, we only have this one life and if you live it for other people’s expectations, and if you live it for societal expectations, I mean, you don’t get a second round to do things differently. So, I think this is a great topic. I’m glad we talked about it today. If you guys want to continue the conversation, tell us what you’re thinking about quitting, let’s talk about it over on our Facebook discussion group, and I guess we will see you next week. I need to go and process this now. I feel like I need to –


[00:59:29] MB: I would love it if people – as long as it’s got – some are very, very personal, but if you’re like, “Dude, I’m quitting tennis.” And they just want to like put it somewhere where like it’s a safe space, we don’t have to pronounce it to the world, but you want to put it, I’d be interested to see what people have been holding on to that they’re wanting to quit. So definitely include that in our conversation on Facebook.


[00:59:50] KC: Yes, we would love to hear about it.


[00:59:52] MB: If you think that you’re just like – hopefully, there are some people out there where like literally everything is great and there’s nothing, they’ve already know done that part in their life. They’ve already ejected the part that wasn’t happiness anymore. But there’s a lot of people out there that they’re like, dude, relating hard to this.


[01:00:10] KC: Yeah, I’m sure. Well, hopefully this helped those people to make some difficult decisions.


[01:00:17] MB: Yes.


[01:00:18] KC: All right. Well, it’s nice chatting with you as always, and we always next week. 


[01:00:21] MB: Bye.


[01:00:21] KC: Bye.




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